https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/11/meet-transgender-heartthrob-wild-west/
As I posted earlier today and despite something the anti-trans people try to push gender identity not matching birth assigned sex is not new, it is not being pushed in schools, and it is not being forced on kids. It has existed all through history just as same sex attractions have. Why not just give people equality and civil rights, why use old incorrect old traditions or religious dogma to stand in the way of the best medical understanding we have today. In 2022 we should not be denying the advanced reality we have to pretend that people that did not even understand to wash their hands had a better understanding of medical gender or sexual attraction. Also understand that in the end of the story they tried to bully this man into wearing female clothing that the sheriff thought he should be wearing. The authority of law had decided on their own that this person who by dressing and acting as the masculine person they were so upset the legal authorities they tried the best they could to force them into obeying. But Harry understood his gender and who he was and was willing to die first. Just like the kids today willing to kill themselves instead of being forced to live as a gender they are not. Hugs
Harry Allen, the transgender heartthrob of the Wild West Photo: Public domainHe was a skilled barroom brawler, trick shooter, and dashing womanizer known for having multiple mares in his stable at any given moment. If 19th-century trans “cowboy” Harry Allen hadn’t been assigned female at birth, John Wayne—or Elliot Page, if we’re casting looks—would have played him in a sexy biopic already.
Hollywood has spent billions depicting the frontier as a gun-slinging frenzy of cisgender masculinity, but in reality, the Old West was one of the queerer places in America. This sprawl of undeveloped land drew hundreds of closeted men, women, and gender non-conforming folk from across the United States out of suburban hidey-holes, and into a difficult but liberating new ecosystem where survival meant more than gender norms.
Given the Wild West was built on the bones of indigenous tribal lands, its more relaxed approach to gender wasn’t surprising. Tribes like the Navajo and Cherokee were never moved by Christian colonizers’ binary dog-and-pony show, recognizing anywhere from four to six “genders” on average. Their tradition of accepting “two-spirits”—transgender, gender fluid, and/or non-binary tribe members—as treasured community members bled subtly into the culture of the West, creating cracks of space for other queer people to experiment. Infamously lawless, the burgeoning area was too busy dealing with murders and dysentery to make Puritanical “masquerading laws” a priority, removing the legal leverage well-established cities used to subjugate queer bodies for offenses like **checks notes** wearing a dress while male.
The ratio of men to women was also around 14:1 on the frontier, which meant three things:
- “Gay sex” wasn’t always seen as homosexual, just a necessity.
- Sexual violence was a significant problem across the board.
- It wasn’t uncommon for women to dress in men’s clothes to prevent becoming victims of sexual violence.
Because of this, some historians have reduced overt queerness to crossdressing as a survival tactic and all Brokeback Mountain sexual partnering as a supply and demand issue.
Harry Allen is a prime example of why these historians are silly.
Born in Indiana in 1882 to poor ranch workers, Allen’s family relocated to the Pacific Northwest just as he entered puberty. His mother, Jennie Gordon, gave interviews asserting her child rejected girls’ clothes almost immediately, dressing in pants instead of skirts and learning to shoot on horseback instead of taking up needlepoint. He formally changed his name to Harry Livingston in around 1900, switching to Allen once police records attached to “Livingston” became cumbersome. This name change was not, as some historians have suggested, for employment reasons.
Allen communicated clearly in a 1908 interview with The Seattle Sunday Times that everything from his name to hat choice was rooted in gender dysphoria, saying, “I did not like to be a girl, did not feel like a girl, and never did look like a girl,” he said. “Sick at heart over the thought that I would be an outcast of the feminine gender, I conceived the idea of making myself a man.”
As it turns out, Harry executed his idea a little too well for the time. He secured “manly” work throughout the Washington area, including bartending and participating in prize fights. He had no trouble attracting a parade of girlfriends, some quite desperate to marry him. Harry even assimilated into a gang of young men, though they participated in little crime outside of drinking and petty theft. But everything he did, from playing the piano drunk to messy breakups, became catnip for cops and local tabloids.
By 1902 Allen was in the newspaper regularly. His first publicized arrest in 1900 was for appearing “in male attire,” despite no local or federal law saying he couldn’t wear pants. Once the arresting officer was humiliated by the revelation Allen hadn’t committed a crime—and Harry loved polished menswear, always sporting a silk hat, tie, and a walking stick even on quick trips to the barber—the young man became a punching bag for law enforcement. “Vagrancy,” an intentionally vague charge used at the turn of the century to target LGBTQ people, appears on his rap sheet multiple times alongside accusations of bootlegging and prostitution.
While the frontier may have been safer than the average “lawful” city for queer people, Allen could never escape the burden police, judges, and media heaped on him. He was jailed in 1911 for selling liquor to an indigenous person, a minor and non-violent offense, but held on a massive bail for weeks while awaiting trial. During his imprisonment, the Spokane Chief of Police made bullying Allen into petticoats under threat of solitary confinement his personal pastime. Journalists enabled this by publishing weekly updates on whether Harry had given in to skirts. (He never did.)
By the time Harry Allen died of syphilis in 1922, he had been written up by the media no less than two dozen times, mostly for living as his authentic self and dating “young women of respectable parentage.” At the time of his passing, at least two paramours had committed suicide out of unrequited love for him, though it’s unclear if these reports were accurate or sensationalized tabloid fodder.
Allen remains strong evidence that gender dysphoria and trans ideology are not, as pundits today wail from their Twitter accounts, a new “social contagion,” but a long and well-documented part of the human experience no matter where those humans settle.
Scottie's Playtime 
I agree homosexuality has always been around and it’s why it’s referred to as an abomination in the Bible. God says it’s a sin and we’re given the reason as to why He calls it this. What is new, however, is the transgender and homosexuality push to teach this ideology in the schools. And, YES, they are trying to teach it. Where the problem comes in is when the LGBQT community tries to force THEIR views onto the conservative family. Christian families want nothing to do with this ideology. We don’t want it in our schools, in our businesses, in our churches or in our families. Now that doesn’t mean we would be ugly or rude to someone just because they’re gay, no, because that wouldn’t be right. It just means we believe what the Bible teaches and the Bible is quiet clear, those whose practice this sin, will die in it. Whether you believe in God or not doesn’t change this simple fact.
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Hello ROBINDD4L. I read your comment and pondered if you are just a misinformed true believer or a troll. Not that it matters. I could explain to you that what that verse the abomination really referred to was temple boys being used by men for sex in some faiths, I could explain that it doesn’t matter what is or is not a sin as this is not a theocracy, never was intended to be, and so far it is not now. None of that really matters to what you seem most misinformed on. Let’s talk about that.
What you take as teachers pushing an ideology is that you somehow have lost track of the last 50 years, and the idea that you as a Christians won’t tolerate it in your communities, your schools, your families … is you are not everyone! The rest of us get a say in the PUBLIC and in PUBLIC schools. Your family is your business, but the rest of us have families and views also that don’t agree with yours. Look up the polls Robin. Times have changed. Get out of your bubble. The majority of people are accepting of gay people, same sex marriage, and yes also the trans community.
Here is what you don’t get. You think that not allowing you to oppress the LGBTQI+ means you’re being persecuted. Wrong. It doesn’t matter if you accept it or not, but the medical science and data is in. People are born gay; people are born with a different gender identification than they are assigned at birth. Look at the graphs on the side bar of this blog to understand the scientific data! Your religious views don’t matter, your knowledge is based on what people knew 2,500 years ago. This is 2022, we know and understand a lot more now.
It is not your school; it is the public school. And the public disagrees with you. You don’t want tolerance and acceptance taught in your schools to your kids, don’t send them to public schools. Simple. See what you are demanding is the rest of us live by your church rules, your religious views. No sorry we don’t have to. You want to fine. Don’t agree with gay sex, don’t have any. Don’t believe in transgender, don’t transition. Don’t want same sex marriage then don’t get married to someone of the same sex. But you have no right to stop anyone else from living the life they were born to live. The rest of us have rights also. We have the right to live equally in the US democracy. Not Theocracy, Democracy.
We know and understand that people are born LGBTQI+. Including the two that seem most mentioned the trans and the gays. Born that way. They have the right to have a full and open life just as people born cis or straight. Religion is a choice but being LGBTQI+ is not, you are born LGBTQI+. Society understands that now. We have learned and advanced tolerance and acceptance. What you call pushing ideology in schools is actually simply requiring tolerance and acceptance of diversity or difference. Just as no kid should be bullied or picked on for wearing a cross no kid should be picked on for wearing a pride / trans flag. Just as no kid should be bullied for reading the bible, no kid should be bullied for reading a book with gay or trans characters or subjects. That is what you are so afraid of, tolerance and acceptance. You want to indoctrinate what you believe is the only way, only good. It doesn’t work that way. Society has moved on.
On last thing, you talk about sin and those who practice this sin will die. Yes they will, eventually. Guess what, so will you. No joke, you are going to die also. Also this line was funny Whether you believe in God or not doesn’t change this simple fact. You still don’t get it. Your god doesn’t matter. Not to me. Not to the majority of the people in the US. Your god doesn’t set the laws nor the standards in a democracy. The US is a democracy. Here is the key, your god matters to you and in our country you have the right to worship that god yourself for yourself. You do not have the right to force me or anyone else to follow your god. We are tolerance of you. We insist you also be tolerant of us. That is what makes a civil society.
I am here if you want to really talk about the issue. Hugs
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I’m very tolerant and open to having a reasonable conversation, however, you’re the one who chose to name call. See, the problem is you don’t want to hear anything the Bible has to say about God, About Jesus, about sin or about repenting. So why post your article within the Christian community? My issue isn’t with the way you want to live your life, my issue is with how your community wants to indoctorate our children into your way of life by having it taught within our schools. If Christians can’t pray and have the Bible taught in school then your community doesn’t have that right either.
So live your life the way you want as an unrepented sinner who only cares about yourself.
But the difference between you and me is I know I’ve sinned, and I repent of it because I believe in God and Jesus as the Son of God who came in the flesh and was sacrificed for our sin.
We’re all sinful at birth but we must learn how to overcome it. Doesn’t matter whether it’s a person who lies, commits adultery, is an alcoholic, commits idolatry, is sexually immoral or any of those things. Sin is sin but we’re told to live righteous lives.
But there is nothing righteous about homosexuality or changing your gender. It’s just simply wrong. And the only reason we’re discussing it is because you chose to post your article within the Christian community. You’re the one that’s intolerant! I say live your life the way you want, just keep it out of the schools and away from our children. Don’t think that’s too much to ask.
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Robin … this is excellent advice: “I say live your life the way you want, just keep it out of the schools and away from our children.”
Suggest you follow it as well. 😎
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I agree.
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Hello Robin. Please point out where I name called? I stated facts, reality. I summarized your position based on what you wrote, you were very clear in what you were demanding was the public conduct themselves according to your religious views. So please point out what I said you take as name calling.
Dear Robin. You are again misinformed. You asked So why post your article within the Christian community? I have no idea what you are talking about. I posted this on my blog. If someone borrowed it to post elsewhere, I guess they felt it was valuable information the Christian community needed to hear or understand.
Again you talk about my issue is with how your community wants to indoctorate our children into your way of life by having it taught within our schools. That is a lie. Your schools are religious schools and your home. You teach all the anti-acceptance and intolerance you wish there, that is your right. Public schools are for the public, funded by the public, and the gays, trans, and the entire LGBTQ+ is part of that public. That is public schools with kids that have parents that have different ideas than your religious based ones. That is public schools where gay and trans kids have the right to live openly and be accepted as equal members of the public. Notice the word PUBLIC. See even within the Christian religion you are not the majority you think you might be. I often post Rev Ed Trevors whose church and religious order are very LGBTQI+ accepting.
I am sorry to have to burst your bubble Robin but kids in public schools have the right to pray and do so all the time. Especially during before / during surprised tests, or when they are being threatened by bullies. I am going to pretend you said that in good faith because your preacher told you that from the pulpit, but that is just a talking point myth. Do you know what is illegal about prayer in public schools? Forcing kids to pray to a god they don’t believe in such as school leaders requiring kids to pray before class or in assembly. Voluntary student led prayer is legal. What is illegal is forced prayers led by teachers. You could see why that would be wrong to do right? Ok you’re a nice Christian kid and teacher M is a Muslim. He requires you to start his class with a prayer to Allah with mention of the Islamic beliefs. That would make you terribly upset. Well reverse it and it is still wrong. But if you are from an atheist family and some teacher is trying to force a prayer to Thor it is still wrong.
Teaching the bible is allowed as literature or part of a world religion class. What is illegal is teaching that the bible is true and is the one and only real god. Again I think you can see why from the examples above.
In both cases it is you who wants your child to be taught your religion, your religious texts, and forced to pray your faith’s prayers, the solution then is send them to a religious school run by your religion. It doesn’t belong at a public school. The reason is the public is all different religions / faiths or none at all.
Wow all this just to refute your misunderstandings in your first paragraph. This is going to be a long one.
Robin do understand how you come off. I don’t agree with your god belief so I am a sinner who doesn’t care about anyone else. How very childish and immature. That is not name calling by the way, it is a description of how ignorant that phrase was. It would be as ignorant of me saying you don’t want gay and trans kids to see themselves in books and movies so you don’t care about anyone else. Of course you care about others, just as I do. You may even do work to help those in our society that are less fortunate as I have done. Your being religious and my not being religious has nothing to do with that, nor does the mythical sin idea. Moving on to the next thing.
OK going to skip the sermon you laid out because it is boring, and I stopped doing the atheist rebuttals to apologetics a long time ago. I simply don’t care, your faith is just one more god belief in a world that has seen hundreds of thousands of gods that humans believed in come and go. Do you still worship Thor, Zeus, or to go further astray the Sumerians believed in anthropomorphic polytheism, or of many gods in human form. Every god man has dreamed up has fallen as human understanding expanded. Which is not to say there is anything wrong with personal faith. If you want one you should have it, make it a good one that is personal to yourself, that helps you live a better life. Just leave the rest of us out of it because your god is your god, not ours.
You say that being gay or trans is wrong. Interesting. You got your medical degree where? What science discipline did you study? Oh that is right, you took that from an old book written by people 2,500 years ago that did not even understand germs and to wash their hands. Yes I am sure they understood all the genes and hormones in the human body and how everything interacts in the womb causing people to be born gay or with a different gender than they are assigned at birth. Please don’t make advanced medical pronouncements based on a book of fables.
Again I post here. I did not post anywhere else. If someone took my post and placed it where your community needed to see it, I am happy with that. But you say I am the intolerant one, how? Please tell me how I am intolerant of you and your religion. Is it because I block you from reading books or seeing movies about your god like the Christians are trying to do to LGBTQI+ books, TV shows, and movies. Nope I am not doing that, have fun reading and watching what you like. Even porn if that is your thing, oh right you are trying to stop people from watching porn. Rather intolerant that don’t you think?
Oh I know how I am intolerant, I am forbidding you from wearing Christian symbols and dressing in modes some Christan faiths requires. Nope again that is you and your religion doing that. I don’t care what you wear, but your kind wants to ban rainbow flags and stickers, stop drag queens from being in public, requiring men and women to dress in a manner you approve of.
Robin, see who really is being intolerant? It really is you. So I say to you live your religious life the way you want, just stop trying to force it into public schools and please keep it away from our children who don’t go to your church. Thanks. Hugs
I hope to hear back from you soon. I have not had this kind of fun conversation in months. Hugs
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Your article was posted in the Christian women section and it wasn’t a reblog. I don’t know if it was a mistake or accident but that was the reason I responded to the post since it was in the Christianity section.
I stated my position regarding homosexuality and transgender ideology, that was it. It’s wrong in the eyes of God. also stated I have no issues with anyone who is gay, but, that ideology isn’t something which should be taught in schools. Christianity isn’t taught in schools so why should yours?
See there you go ASSUMING again, and being sarcastic. You’re ranting and raving about things I never stated. I’m not trying to ban anything, you wear what you want, watch what you want and eat what you want. It doesn’t matter, because, you’ve stated your position clearly. Not one time have I been ugly, rude are nasty to you, just stated my belief and what shouldn’t be taught in schools.
You see whether you realize are not, Christians who really try to live their life as the Bible instructs those are the ones who really do care about you. Not all Christians are that way, unfortuately. But there are those of us who only want the best for you. It’s not my job to judge, condemn or criticize you. Not what I was doing. So with that said.
Bless you and I wish you only the best. Merry Christmas!
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Hello Robin. I find it funny that someone trolled your Christian women’s section. You don’t mention the Chrisitan women section of what? Send me a link. Is it a forum? A bulletin board? Is it a magazine or blog? If it requires a log in to author a post like a normal blog, I would have to have that authorization, which means it seems someone from that place did it. Either way I think it is funny. But it has nothing to do with me other than it was taken from my blog.
Robin you are again under a misconception. Being gay or trans, being LGBTQI+ is not an ideology. Is being left handed an ideology? How about red hair or brown eyes? No it is just how some people are born. Now at one time being left handed was banned in schools, it was thought to be evil. That is true google it. Teachers punished kids and forced them to write with their correct hand, the right one. Was that intolerant, yes it was. The people doing it thought being left handed was wrong. Back to kids with red hair or brown eyes, just because they are in the schools is that teaching an ideology? Should they be removed from the schools, or forced to cover their red hair or wear dark glasses so people cannot see their eye color? What about teachers, should we let red haired people be teachers? What if they push red hair on the students. What about we simply accept some people have red hair or brown eyes. How about we understand it is just a normal way some people are. So is being gay or trans or any of the LGBTQI+ community. It is not an ideology it simply is how people are born.
It is the same with gay or trans kids or teachers in schools. It is not pushing it on anyone because it is not something that people can catch from another. It is not a disease. What you call ideology is simply teaching that these people exist, they are born that way, it is normal, and they need to be treated just like everyone else. What you call ideology is simply anti-bullying campaigns to stop kids from thinking that because their church says it is wrong and a sin to be left handed or have red hair they can pick on those kinds of kids.
You have made the comment that Christianity is not taught in schools before and I gently tried to correct you. So let us talk about it. you seem to think Christianity is banned from schools. So I guess all those crosses worn as necklaces and earrings are imagination? Did you know it is OK to have religious symbols or sayings on shirts in public schools but not the phrase it is OK to be gay. Seems rather like religion is getting a boost in public schools, doesn’t it? How about the bible, which not only is it legal for a student to carry in school some do carry them. But Christian groups are trying to remove books about LGBTQI+ subject matter. Did you know that public schools in red states have to have “In God We Trust” plaques or other displays on the walls? But they ban rainbow stickers or pride flags. Did you know some schools have little stands set up with bibles that kids can take if they want? Most school libraries have bibles in them. See unlike what religious people are trying to do with removing any books or media with LGBTQI+ in them, no one is trying to take your bible away. We just insist you don’t read it aloud to us or force us to read it. Do you understand the difference? While religious people like you are trying hard to remove just the existence of anything symbolic referring to gays or trans, you feel entitled to the daily pushing of Christianity by clothing, signs, books, and history. It is OK in Florida for a history book to talk about the religion of a person but not mention if they were married to someone of the same sex or dated the same gender. Really shows which side is intolerant don’t you think? Look up Harvey Milk and why he was killed. In Florida teachers can tell you the position in government he held but not why it was important, and they can tell you the religion of his killer but not why the killer targeted Milk.
Robin you now deny you want to ban anything. But you repeatedly say that the existence of LGBTQI+ in schools is indoctrination of an ideology. As I stated above it is not an ideology it is simply reality. You write also stated I have no issues with anyone who is gay, but, that ideology isn’t something which should be taught in schools. how is it being taught please? Is it because there are two boys holding hands and teachers are allowing it? Just like the boy and girl that were holding hands next to them. How about a rainbow flag, right next to the in god we trust motto forced by red states to be displayed in schools. Is it ideology that married teachers can put up pictures of their spouse or talk about their families but only if they are a straight couple. But if they are a same sex couple they cannot have pictures of the family or talk about the family. That is pushing a straight Christian ideology, isn’t it?
I have calmly and simply responded to what you wrote. You say I ranted, but in truth I explained what you misunderstood. Just like I did above. You have a huge blind spot about your bible / religion in our society that you need to understand. Using your holy book and its writings to force your views on others is not caring nor loving. You say you only want the best for us, great then leave your religion out of our lives. I could turn that around on you, we non-religious want the best for you by showing you there is a wonderful life you could have without your god. But we don’t do that. Again in the community you don’t see atheists going door to door teaching against god, but you do see Christians trying to stop drag queens from reading to kids with their parents’ permission.
Happy Holidays to you and yours. Hugs
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I think Robin is criticizing the inclusion of gender ideology in public education. And he’s absolutely right; it is very much an ideology (just like a religion) but it is a social ideology rather than a religious one that has just as much factual basis as creationist beliefs.
Although I could quote the provincial government mandated curriculum standard that is all about teaching gender identity staring in kindergarten based on the federal government’s Bill C-16, evolutionary biologist Colin Wright takes a different tack and says,
“(T)he social justice stance on human evolution closely resembles that of the Catholic Church. The Catholic view of evolution generally accepts biological evolution for all organisms, yet holds that the human soul (however defined) had been specially created and thus has no evolutionary precursor. Similarly, the social justice view has no problem with evolutionary explanations for shaping the bodies and minds of all organisms both between and within a species regarding sex, yet insists that humans are special in that evolution has played no role in shaping observed sex-linked behavioral differences. Why the biological forces that shape all of life should be uniquely suspended for humans is unclear. What is clear is that both the Catholic Church and well-intentioned social justice activists are guilty of gerrymandering evolutionary biology to make humans special.”
That’s the crux of gender ideology being taught as if true.
Granted, the same sex attraction equality has been hard fought and won on the basis that such attraction is not a social construct that is chosen but biologically driven (and that to deny equality under the law when a person is simply born this way is discriminatory). There is good scientific evidence for this case. Conversely, gender ideology is being fought and won on the basis that gender identity is biologically driven and that sex is a social construct! But, like religious belief, there is no scientific basis for this gender identity inheritance claim yet we are teaching children that it is the case for people (but no other mammal). That’s the indoctrination element. That’s why people like Robin raise a fair point that proponents of gender identity (whether male or female, gay or straight or celibate) who believe it is true that it is biological (and so shouldn’t receive discrimination for a biological condition over which they have no means to alter) can’t have it both ways and STILL deny religion it’s fair shot at similarly indoctrinating public school students.
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Hello Tildeb. I wondered when you couldn’t resist commenting on the trans posts any longer. I think Robin made themselves quite clear several times.
They don’t want LGBTQI+ in their schools! They seem to feel the entire public sphere is their space and the LGBTQI+ are not allowed. I think I covered that quite well already.
Tildeb you are wrong that gender identity in public education is an ideology in any sense. It is a recognition of facts. Is the idea that there are different colored people in the world an ideology? No it is a fact. We recognize facts as reality. Trying to compare gender identity which differs from assigned birth to creationism is wrong and stupid. Gender identification differing from assigned sex has scientific data, evidence, and medical studies to back up its validity. Creationism doesn’t. You once said you were a science teacher, so you should know better. However I think what confuses you and people like Robin is that the idea of acceptance of diversity and tolerance of those that are different. Things that churches are notorious for disliking and yet public schools are famous for promoting.
As you well know, the majority of medical organizations that have examined and conducted peer reviewed studies support gender affirming care. You cannot deny that. You can continue to deny there is that evidence all you want, but clearly it exists. I have posted reviews and quotes from them for you, and yet you stubbornly deny reality. That denial sounds like adherence to an ideology not supported by fact sort of like those promoting creationism. Here is a partial list of medical organizations that disagree with you and support that gender identity that differs from assigned sex exists and needs to be treated with gender afirming care. Hugs
Medical Organization Statements
Leading medical groups recognize the medical necessity of treatments for gender dysphoria and endorse such treatments.
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
American Academy of Dermatology
American Academy of Family Physicians
American Academy of Nursing
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Academy of Physician Assistants
American College Health Association
American College of Nurse-Midwives
American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
American College of Physicians
American Counseling Association
American Heart Association
American Medical Association
American Medical Student Association
American Nurses Association
American Osteopathic Association
American Psychiatric Association
American Psychological Association
American Public Health Association
American Society of Plastic Surgeons
Endocrine Society
GLMA: Health Professionals Advancing LGBTQ Equality
National Association of Nurse Practitioners in Women’s Health
National Association of Social Workers
National Commission on Correctional Health Care
Pediatric Endocrine Society
Society for Adolescent Health and Medicine
World Medical Association
World Professional Association for Transgender Health
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Hello Scottie. The attack on language is boilerplate ideology in action. To support it, the same tactic is used on misaddressing counter arguments not by merit of evidence from reality but by a linguistic fraud. The ‘tolerance’ being sold in gender ideology is absolutely intolerant; the diversity sold in gender ideology is exclusionary; what is sold is an ideology that there really is something biological to ‘gender identity’. Hence the need to create and sell the belief system that ‘gender’ is synonymous with sex when it comes to biology and anyone who disagrees does so for reasons other than being truthful. This is the lie.
You equate Robin’s disagreement about teaching gender identity to be about rejecting gay people even though he states repeatedly he disagrees about teaching this ideology and supports gay people being treated with dignity and respect. You simply wave away that gender identity is an ideology and then offer a convenient list of captured institutions as if that list makes belief in gender identity a fact in reality (hence the lawsuits being organized by parent groups against each and every one of them). It’s a vacuous position, Scottie, because gender is like a soul and all you’re doing is claiming everyone has one and this is proven because these organizations – like a list of religious institutions – support the notion. It’s equivalent to waving away all secularist and humanist concerns about religious ideology being taught in schools to vulnerable children because anyone who has these concerns must be intolerant of religious people and therefore immoral to disagree with the practice.
There are sound medical reasons why other countries like Denmark and Sweden and France and, most recently Britain, are putting the brakes on operating as if gender identity were true and in need of affirming medical services. And it should concern you very much that the staff joke at Britain’s largest gender clinic (Tavistock) was, “there would be no gay people left” once they were done surgically and chemically ‘affirming’ children ‘born in the wrong body’ to realign their gender identity with their biological body. Hundreds of detransitioned victims of acting on the ideology by altering their bodies also tell us the same thing; that they were sold a belief that they could ‘fix’ their sex-based discomfort if only they transitioned enough to fit their gender identity. Shades of praying hard enough to overcome reality but in this case with the addition of chemicals and surgeries. I don’t believe ANYONE is born in the wrong body and so of course this is going to make me an apostate to gender believers who will reframe my position as intolerant and bigoted and stupid. You know the drill being an atheist. Why you don’t see the stark similarities and aren’t more concerned for young gays and lesbians demonstrates the degree of capture the ideology has had on you.
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Tildeb. You are being disingenuous to promote your ideology. We all know exactly what Robin was pushing. The more they stated their position the clearer and more restrictive it got. They do not want any acceptance, mention, or tolerance of gays, lesbians, or trans people in any public classroom or even in society. Just go back and read each comment.
I know your tactics by now, you will try to dodge and confuse, state things that are not supported by facts, and then come right back around and repeat the same things as if they were not already addressed. Let us stop that right now. Robin is clearly expressing a viewpoint that any tolerance of acceptance of LGBTQI+ in public school classrooms is grooming and unacceptable. It is the very same talking points on right wing media as you should well know. After all you used to spout them here enough.
The below is sarcasm ****
Oh yes I treat them niggars with respect yes I do as long as they know their place. They better look down and say yes sir to a white person, well we know they had it better when they were slaves, damn they now want to drink from the same water fountains and think they should be in our schools. They are going to far I tell you! Sarcasm ended.
I hate writing that but it was needed to show the complete hypocrisy of Tildeb saying Robin was OK with gay people but …
Yes Tildeb I do wave away your manufactured idea that gender affirmation is an ideology because the scientists and medical professionals say it is something that is true and exists. How hard is it for you to understand. You are not equal to the AMA, or any of the other … how did you put it … captured institutions. Get the heck over yourself. At this point you are a covid denier raging at Dr Fauci and the Covid vaccines. You hate that list because you cannot argue against the people behind it.
Tildeb. Like it or not the world has left your little bigoted hates behind, and we have advanced socially. You are arguing a flat earth prospective. And it seems you want to die on that hill because you think there is a chance you will win based on the die hard right wing in England and the US red states. But you have lost in your own country of Canada? and you have lost the majority of the world. Get over it! Face it the world’s biggest medical associations disagree with you on the issue of trans people, transitioning, and the care of trans kids.
And there you go again Tildeb, rehashing and regurgitating the very things the last time you were here on my blog I refuted. You said it, I refuted it, you threw more stuff at the wall and I refuted it, you repeated the first stuff, I refuted it, you repeated the rest and on it went. What is your hope that someone reading your refuted stuff might not know it has been debunked and believe it? I have far more to do than play repeat Wack a mole with you, I told you that before. No one is erasing gay people or lesbians if you want to use the TERF talking points. I have addressed the Swedish issue, the British issue ( interesting side note both Ireland and Scotland do not agree with the British National Health system on this issue.)
Anyway the entire point comes down to the last things you said. Tildeb I thank you for once being honest with me. “I don’t believe ANYONE is born in the wrong body … ” And that is the entire crux of the situation. You don’t believe it, so it cannot be true. You know more than the doctors, you know more than the scientist, you know more than the people in those bodies that have this thing, because YOU don’t believe it. It is strangely also both the religous and the hard right viewpoint.
There have been people all my life that have told me my being gay was a choice. They knew this despite it getting me beaten, losing jobs, losing promotions, losing family, losing friends … they knew this because they did not believe in people being born gay. Yes I would tell them, I am gay and I was born this way. Nope I don’t believe you they would respond, it is a phase or rebellion, or you’re trying to hurt your parents. I would ask them when they decided / choose to be straight and they would sneer don’t be silly, we all were born straight. Born straight because you say so, but no one born gay? Don’t you see what you are doing Tildeb? You are repeating a trope from the fucking 1970s
Tildeb I won’t ever claim to understand being born a different gender than my assigned birth sex. When I was young people who found out I was gay asked me if I just wanted to be a woman. Nope, no, not that. Those body parts I did not like. I loved being a guy, and love guy parts. That is what being gay implies. But just because I don’t understand it and I am not gender different from my assigned birth sex, doesn’t mean I can’t accept those that are and trust what they tell me along with the doctors that agree with them. So why can’t you?
Is your own feelings so important that you will fight to overturn the feelings of all the trans people? All the doctors that say it is not only a thing but needs to be treated with gender affirming treatment you are willing to disregard because you do not agree, nope wait, you do not believe anyone is born in the wrong body. Where do I hear that spoken most loudly … oh yes I remember from religious people touting their god never makes mistakes.
Funny thing is I have six tabs open about gender biology being hard wired. I was going to do a response to you on it in a new thread. Not sure it is worth it now. See I keep making the mistake of thinking those debating these subjects are as interested in the truth, in the true science as I am. But sadly it is becoming clear to me that while some are there are some such as yourself whose minds are closed to the advancement of medial / social understandings and only want to keep an old outmoded regressive ideas. So I will just put the links here and if you want to discuss them please start a new comment thread. Best wishes Tildeb. Hugs
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/is-gender-identity-biologically-hard-wired
https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/gender-identity/sex-gender-identity
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2020/06/15/the-myth-of-biological-sex/?sh=1741dcd876b9
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Define gender so that we can find it in the human body.
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Scottie’s Playtime, I NEVER stated I have ANYTHING against Gay people, what I have said over and over is I don’t believe homosexual ity and gender ideology should be taught in the schools. Cause as a Christian it’s not My belief. However, I don’t judge you for your lifestyle choices no one has the right to do that. I was very upfront with you about it, all about the ideology not you as a person. I hope this clears everything up and you understand what I was referring to. Oh, BTW, I’m a female. LOL.
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Hello Robin, homosexuals are gay people. Again the idea of teaching homosexuality and gender ideology is a right wing talking point that simply is not a thing. What is being taught is anti-bullying, tolerance, and acceptance. That is the big ideology you are against. So your pro bullying? You want gay kids beat up?
Think about it, how do you teach this mythical homosexuality? It is a feeling of romantic / sexual attraction to the same gender / sex. How do you teach that? Since it is inborn, people are born that way. It is a fact that conversion therapy doesn’t work, so how do you teach it? If that is homosexuality ideology what about all the straight people in schools, all the boys and girls holding hands, saying I love you, horrors their dating, all the straight married teachers. Is that teaching the ideology of heterosexuality?
The big scary thing you are fighting against is simply acknowledging that gay and trans people exist and they have a right to not be harassed nor harmed for being themselves. Hugs
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Scottie, you keep saying things like, “Again the idea of teaching homosexuality and gender ideology is a right wing talking point that simply is not a thing.”
As a teacher, I can assure you that gender ideology IS not only a ‘thing’ but a central focus in K-12 public education. It is part of the curriculum in the two provinces I’m licensed to teach in. You get off track presuming the criticism is about teaching children how to engage in homosexual acts, which is not taught. But unquestionably and undeniably gender ideology is. Any teacher who says it’s either being dishonest intentionally or hasn’t a clue what gender ideology looks like in practice. The easiest way to find out is to examine if children are being taught the language of gender terminology (like cis and terf and non binary and fluid and so on, like focusing on ‘feelings’ related to masculine and feminine STEREOTYPES). And, lo and behold, this starts in kindergarten and reinforced in every grade (and now in almost every subject) after.
Gender ideology is EXCUSED as ‘teaching tolerance’ (isn’t that handy… I mean, who disagrees with teaching children to be tolerant?) but the language is clearly ideological when it steps past the sex binary and begins to teach gender fluidity in its place. It starts with capturing the language and then altering liberal terms like tolerance and diversity to mean something OTHER than what it did not very long ago. As you’ve demonstrated time and again here, you have zero tolerance for any diversity in opinion without claiming the diverse viewpoint is bigotry and intolerance! This teaching in public schools about gender is 100% ideological and not biological. And it IS happening every day in every classroom of public education by mandated curriculum. Deny this is denying reality.
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What someone chooses to wear or carry to school is their business. No different than if one chooses to wear a rainbow pin, their business. What I’m specifically stating is the ideology should NOT be taught in schools. Christianity isn’t being taught neither should your ideology. That’s all I’m saying. Not putting anyone down, not being rude just stating my opinion. And your post showed up in the Christian Women section of the reader on WordPress. It wasn’t reblogged so I guess it was one of your tags when you posted the article.
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Robin we are going in circles. Being gay, being lesbian, being trans is not an ideology any more than being black. It simply exists. It is not being taught, it cannot be caught or spread. What you claim to be teaching ideology is stopping the persecution and oppression of LGBTQI+ people in schools. What you call homosexual ideology is stopping the abuse of gay kids. What do you think teaching homosexuality is anyway? Do you understand that homosexuality / being gay is a romantic / sexual attraction to the same sex. You cannot teach that. How would you teach it? Oh maybe you think teachers are explaining the sex part of being gay? Robin here is something to understand, everything gay people do sexually so do straight people. Surprise you are doing the same acts as gay people. And as I said before none of that is taught even in sex ed classes.
Do you see how you have fallen for a talking point? It is something made up to excite the right wing. The trans ideology, what is that? Oh yes that some few people are born identifying with a different gender than the doctor pronounced after they were pushed out of a womb. What is being taught in schools is anti-bullying, to let trans / gay kids be themselves instead of making them targets for abuse or harm. That is the grand secret ideology you are fighting to stop. Hugs
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I’m sorry Scottie I disagree regarding the sexual act, we don’t all do the same thing. But I can see you can’t distinguish the difference between the two tolerance and ideology. You don’t believe the ideology is being taught in schools and it’s tolerance that’s being taught. If you want to check it out for yourself, do a Google search of school board meetings on video. It has nothing to do with not accepting gay people it’s the ideology.
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Hello Robin. You say we don’t all do the same things sexually. Tell me do gay people and straight people have the same body parts? Oh yes they do. I don’t know what you imagine gay people are doing but trust me, anything two guys can do so can a guy and woman. Oral sex is practiced by both straight and gay people, so is anal sex. Ever hear of pegging, that is when a straight guy has his girlfriend / wife use a strap on to penetrate him.
These are normal acts of sexual enjoyment that have existed long before the words homosexual or gender. You may not know this but the G spot on a male is inside his butt.
Robin I have posted some of the out of control school board meetings. But I can see you are a right wing media consumer.
You keep saying it is the ideology being taught, that it is not tolerance but the ideology of homosexuality and gender. So what do you think is being taught? Lay it out, what lessons are the teachers leading the students in? Tell me how a teacher teaches homosexuality to a mostly straight classroom please. Since it is an attraction do they get some different teachers together and kiss each other in different arrangements. Just how do you do it. Remember you can not be made gay and you can not catch it, you are born with your sexual attraction preset.
Gender ideology what is it and how do they teach it. Do they use sex dolls, oh can’t do that as not even sex education is taught in most schools. How about using Barbie and Ken dolls?
Tell me just what do you think is going on, what is being taught, and how. Thanks. Hugs
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You, madam, are the result of years of religious brain-washing. You are a narrow-minded bigot who apparently believes that she is somehow superior to others. You’re not. You weaponize your religion, use it to persecute others. I just hope you don’t have any children who will grow up under your tutelage. Oh, and you might want to study grammar a bit before writing again.
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Am I calling you a bigit because you don’t agree with my views? NO, that’s the very definition of intolerance. I’m not weaponizing religion at all, I’m not superior to anyone and not persecuting anyone. Strictly quoting what the Bible says. I’m sorry the mere mention of God offends you, but, it’s my belief. So I live my life in accordance to the Bible as best I can.
That doesn’t mean you have to agree with me. But I’m not here calling you names, being nasty are even talking down to you, but you’re doing a really good job of that.
By the way I don’t have years of religious brain-washing, just decided to read the Bible for myself instead of relying on others who tend to twist and misinterpret what the Bible actually says.
Bless you and have a great week.
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ROBINDD4L, you wrote: I … just decided to read the Bible for myself instead of relying on others. You do realize, don’t you, that even by “reading it for yourself” you are influenced by any and all religious persuasions that have crossed your path during your lifetime, yes?
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Since I don’t go to Church it’s not an issue for me. So I try to follow what the teaches. But I get what your saying, it is a deprogramming that must take place.
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Hello Robin. As you don’t go to church and you are reading the bible for yourself I would recommend a few things. First get this book https://escapefromreligion.wordpress.com/ “THINGS I NEVER LEARNED IN SUNDAY SCHOOL: Facts about the Christian faith that will surprise and astound you”. It is well written and easy to read.
Another thing I would caution you is that the bible has been translated so many times from what we understand now may not have been complete originals. Also there was different changes in punctuation and sad to say opinions of different orders of scribes that were added. I spent a few years on different YouTube channels of the more famous atheist that respond to the bible and biblical apologist. A couple are PHD historians. If you want I can give you suggestions or you can google your own. However here is what you miss if you just read try to read the bible and go by the words on the page, those words are not the original words. They have been translated over and over and often mistranslated, so scholars have to go back to the original languages which they find out gives an entirely different meaning to what is written in English in the King James edition. Two examples are the idea of the virgin Mary, the original words meant young woman. The other one that is also clear is that the passage where it says men shall not lay with men, the original origins better translate as adult men shall not lay with little children as they do with women. If you like I can provide citations and will happily do so.
Happy Holidays and Hugs
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RobinDD4L, schools are not teaching homosexuality. Schools are not teaching trans ideology. Schools are not teaching lifestyles. Schools are teaching TOLERANCE. You sound just like people that bitched about black people coming to school because their poor children would be confused having black people in the classroom. It’s the exact same intolerance. It’s the exact same ignorance. It’s the exact same excuse as well. If you wish to raise intolerant children in your intolerant religion, please do so on your own. But in public schools, they will continue to teach tolerance and respect for all people, not just for people that fit your mold.
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Thespartanatheist, you assume gender ideology is synonymous with ‘teaching tolerance’. Nothing could be further from the truth. You have been completely hoodwinked. Just try to disagree that this is not a man dressed up in a parody of a woman’s body but you are to put aside your eyes and pretend this a real woman. Just try to disagree that this appropriate professional dress in a woodworking shop. You’ll find out just how much ‘tolerance’ is being peddled here. The closer synonym is ‘lies and deceit’ and there is zero tolerance for what’s true.
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tildeb, do you know what a hermaphrodite is?
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Sure. But what does a rare and almost always infertile intersex condition (please note this is not a third sex because in reality we only have two kinds, which includes either, neither, both) have to do with teaching belief in gender ideology (now well into hundreds of variants) on the public dime in public school as if synonymous with sex? This is blatantly untrue in fact but believed true by the true believers!
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Tildeb, either, neither, and both? That is 4 options. 1) male, 2) female, 3) neither, 4) both.
In JUST the discussion about hermaphrodites, YOU have already expanded the possible number of genders to four.
Tildeb, do you know what a lesbian is?
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No, I’ve pointed out that I’m talking about sex and there are exactly 2 sexes. The ‘neither, both’ element mixes the two; that doesn’t mean 4 sexes, thespartanatheist, but a combination of the same 2.
See, you’re conflating sex and gender, and this is the point. They are not synonyms in biology, yet are being taught to children as if they are. This is straight up disinformation based on an ideology that there really, really, really is a biological ‘thing’ that creates an identity called ‘gender’ that somehow relates to sex. Tolerance in this ideology only goes one way: all of us MUST accept the belief as valid OR become intolerant by definition. It’;s like teaching children that a specific version of Christianity must be believed or on is immoral. And we know where that kind of indoctrination leads. The belief that gender is biological is the belief that is not supported by reality. But this belief is justified in the minds of the converted that their belief makes it true in the same way a biblical or koranic literalist believes scripture makes their belief true.
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So you admit “sex” and “gender” are not rhe same?
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It’s not an admission; it’s a fact: gender and sex are not the same. Sex is the biology; gender is the ideology. The schools are not just teaching ideology and indoctrinating children into this belief system but creating activists for it.
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Right, sex and gender are NOT the same, which means you can have one sex but a different gender, right?
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Gender seems to be a feeling of how close or distant one may to sex stereotypes. Of course this is going to run the full gamut between extreme masculine and feminine stereotypes. It doesn’t change the biology.
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Teaching children that it does ‘misalign’ the body to some magically inherited thing called ‘gender’ is an ideology and not a fact. This is the indoctrinating aspect.
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Tildeb, you seem to understand everything except the fact that gender is not just an idea. It is a real thing. Scottie has ample scientific evidence demonstrating that gender is not taught, not groomed, and not indoctrinated. It is something you are born with. Period. A young boy can hang out with trannies his entire youth and the only thing that will change is he will lack animosity toward trans people.
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Yes, you’ve articulated the belief quite well. You assume gender really is a ‘thing’ that is real, that is inherited. The problem, however, is that the term ‘gender’ is not a thing; it’s a feeling compared and contrasted with sex-based stereotypes. So it becomes rather important when you are teaching prepubescent children that they already possess one that may or may not align with their body and that it’s fine to alter the body chemically and surgically to better align with this feeling. It’s also a concern when this teaching is MANDATED and any criticism or concern is considered bigotry because ONLY affirmation is allowed (that’s what the new ‘tolerance’ means). Like turtles, it’s ideology all the way down.
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Hello Tildeb. I wonder that you deny what doesn’t agree with your view, even when it is peer reviewed accepted science? I posted this in response to just that same statement from you a long time ago. I posted it on April 2, 2022 but it was already accepted as science then because it was written in 2018. You are fighting against something scientist, biologist, and medical providers all agree on that there is more than two sexes. Have a reread. Hugs
Biologists now think there is a larger spectrum than just binary female and male
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Here’s a pertinent quote addressing your claim about ‘biologists’ thinking there’s a larger spectrum. Au contraire…
“The purpose of pretending there are more than two sexes is to support those who have assumed non-traditional gender roles. In other words, those who question the binary nature of sex are doing so because they’re trying to make nature itself conform to an ideology that accepts the non-binary nature of gender. The conflation is deliberate, an example of what I call the “reverse appeal to nature”: “what is good must be what is natural.” But as Richard Feynman said about the Challenger space shuttle disaster, “reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled.”
And, in the end, there’s no reason to misrepresent science: people of different genders can be supported and respected without having to distort the nature of biological sex.”
You are going along with the conflation, Scottie, as are those scientists who seem to forget the biological classification is across the biological spectrum and why this binary sex selection is the main driver of how and why evolution works the way it does and has produced what we have today. No matter what gender feelings you may have, for example, no matter how masculine or feminine your feelings may be compared to the stereotypes on any given day, every cell in your body is male not because you want it to be so or because I claim it is so. The biology you have is a product of evolution and the binary nature of mammalian sex you have inherited is indisputable. Any biologists who claim differently have a very hard row to hoe to make it so because all of biology would have to be overturned to make gender the inherited trait and sex the assigned social category.
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Hello Tildeb. I want to be fair and explore what you wrote. It is what I do. I googled is gender biologically determined, and I want to share with you and others what I found. Unfortunately this comment nesting has run its course, something you and I had happen to us in the past. So I am going to start a new comment thread with this information. If you have comment notification on you will receive it. Tildeb there is nothing wrong with admitting that understanding on issues has progressed and advanced. Sticking to old ideas waiting for them to come back in style is not courageous, and I will refrain from adding what I think it is. So join me on the new thread if you wish, I will be exploring the idea is gender biologically determined. Hugs
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For what it is worth. The Toronto Sun is an English-language tabloid newspaper published daily in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. The newspaper is one of several Sun tabloids published by Postmedia Network.
RIGHT BIAS
These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward conservative causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports, and omit information that may damage conservative causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy. See all Right Bias sources.
Overall, we rate the Toronto Sun, Right Biased based on story selection and editorial positions that favor the right and Mixed for factual reporting due to a lack of sourcing and scientific positions that do not align with the scientific consensus.
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Oh good grief, Scottie, it’s not the publisher of the picture that matters; it’s that this guy is using ‘gender ideology’ to protect his fetish. Google it and then choose which ever publication passes through your acceptability filter.
So the point, Scottie (remember when the point once upon a time mattered?) is that not only has the school board rolled over and permitted this lewd caricaturization of females to be perfectly fine, we now have basically no dress code for either students or teachers, a code constrained only by opaque fabric for nipples, groin, and buttocks and an admonishment to not wear symbols that might offend others or appropriate ethnic styles not of one’s own (whatever the hell any of this means). All you’re trying to do by going after the context of a criticism rather than address the content that matters is dismiss legitimate concerns under the guise of ‘intolerance.’ This is a common apologetic tactic like waving away legitimate points of contention because of tone.
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Hello Tildeb. Motive matters. Dogs that love gravy you are smart enough to grasp that. No it seems he is not protecting his fetish at all, unless his fetish is for suing to win loads of cash. Stop pretending to be aggrieved, you know you love this. It is a tactic and if it was not so damn over the top it might have worked. Stupid. Hugs
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Hello Tildeb, in case you did not see it yet, I did look this up, you should have known I would. It is clear it is a scam to force the school board to fire him so he can sue, but they are not playing his game. I made a post on it. Hugs
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You’re the one intolerant! I have NO issues with anyone of color, never have and never will. They DO NOT teach tolerance, they are teaching from BOOKs which provide explicit sexual positions. That’s not tolerance, it’s PERVERTED!
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Hello Robin. Calm down and read the comment you replied to again. With your complaints about the tolerance and acceptance of gay and trans kids in classrooms you are echoing the very complaints made by white southerners during the time of school desegregation. Even with your ending it is not tolerance it is perverted. How? You have bought into the right wing media that teachers are having orgies in kindergarten and by first grade are having gender swap parties. That really is stupid. Next you will tell me there are litter boxes in classrooms where furry kids can go potty.
You are now denying something that the right wing republican politician who wrote the Florida don’t say gay bill already admitted. He wrote it because he couldn’t stand that gay and trans kids were coming out and being accepted instead of targeted and bullied. That admits that what schools are teaching is tolerance and acceptance, just as they did for black skin color. But Christians cannot tolerate acceptance of the LGBTQI+ based on misunderstood writings from 2,500 years ago.
You say they are teaching from books, and I ask what books? In what class? Because that never happened. Again your watching right wing media is showing. I go back to what I wondered at the beginning, are you a true believer or a troll? Because you started out a true Christian and then backed off that when you found out the people here know the bible. Now you are repeating right wing talking points about books. And before you get indignant yes I have the right to ask, it is my blog. You wouldn’t be the first right winger here to push a point. Right Tildeb?
So what classes are teaching sexual positions? How do I enroll, or since I am rather well versed in that how do I get to teach it? It is just silly. What you are spouting about is books that have dialog the right wing conserative / religious right Christians are offended by. Well if that bothers you wait until I tell you about a book that has two daughters who get their dad drunk and have sex with him, not just once but twice. Oh that was the bible. Well let me tell you about a book that has a man with wives, and about 700 concubines. Oh ya that also was the bible. Oh what about child rape, organized commanded child rape … shit that was the bible again.
So before you get a righteous head of steam going about books with LGBTQI+ subjects in them please look at the bible. Hugs
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I’m all for tolerance, but, from your message you left me, your NOT. See, you want to tell the world we should all be tolerant but you don’t adhere to it yourself! I’ve nothing against gays or lesbians, but, I do have an issue with them teaching explicit details within the schools. And don’t try to tell me they’re not, cause I know better it’s been proven. Should tolerance be taught in school? Absolutely, but, that also means you would need to be tolerant for conservative views as well. See, being tolerant works both ways, it’s not a one way street.
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Yes, you do not have an issue with niggers, only niggers being allowed to be observed by your children.
Oops! I mean gay people.
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I have no problem with anyone of color, after all , Jesus was born into the Jewish culture. If I had a problem with anyone of color I would have a problem with Jesus. And just so you know, my husband is native American so, no, that argument doesn’t work for you. Sorry!
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You clearly missed the joke. My last statement was “oops, I mean gay people.”
The joke is, you are just as intolerant of LGBTQ people as people were of black people in the 60s. It is indistinguishable from that hatred in that it is dumb, based on bullshit, and will one day be looked upon as backwards. Also, religious people will pretend they didn’t hate LGBTQ people, just like they now pretend they didn’t use the bible to be racist.
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That’s your opinion, not mine. But whether it’s a joke are not what you said was very disrespectful.
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Lol! You go on Scottie’s blog and tell him he is an abomination, and I’m disrespectful?
You literally called him the gender version of “nigger”. You are as tolerant as Jim Crow.
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No, I quoted what the Bible says. It’s just interesting to me how hateful and a lack of respect this community has. You talk of tolerance but this community is the very definition of intolerance.
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I don’t care what you quote, if it is hateful it is hateful. And as Scottie already said, we do not tolerate hatred. We tolerate diversity, ideas, and even religious beliefs. But not hatred. So, you know, if the shoe fits…..
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I wasn’t being hateful your community is and you definitely don’t tolerate religious beliefs unless it aligns with YOUR beliefs. Otherwise you wouldn’t have come after me the way you did. So with that said, have a great week and good luck to you in your future endeavors. Bless you.
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Robin, you are going to hell. Good luck.
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I believe in Jesus and have been created new, so, that’s a false statement. Only those who don’t believe or believe but refuse to turn from their ways will suffer His wrath.
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Oh, and I read that somewhere so it isn’t hateful. Plus I said “good luck,” so if you are upset its because it’s your fault.
Right?
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That doesn’t upset me because of how I believe.
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Good luck in hell. And oh yeah, you are DEFINITELY going to hell, because the god of the bible says so.
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For those who don’t turn from their sin, yes they will.
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And fir those who refuse to repent of their sin
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Lol! You’re so funny when you say a bunch of religious shit and then pretend your views are anything other than religious shit.
Scott seems like a great person and I would be happy to have him as a friend and support him in any relationship where he found love, even though I personally am not gay.
That is the difference between us.
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I have NOTHING against Scottie, I’m just stating MY belief and what the Bible says. I wish Scottie only the best.
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So you believe in something that is hatred. I fail to see how that makes it any better. And no, you don’t care about Scotttie and what Scottie wants, you only care about what you want for him.
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I only want the best for scottie and all people. I may not agree with His belief, just as Scottie doesn’t agree with mine, but, it still doesn’t change that fact. I don’t judge him for how he believes and it doesn’t make him any less a person. Because everyone deserves to be respected regardless of their beliefs, race, or culture. And I wish him nothing but the best.
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No! You come on this page to specifically tell Scottie that his happiness is evil. That is not respecting him AT ALL. That is HATING.
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No, thespartanatheist, Robin came here and said
“What is new, however, is the transgender and homosexuality push to teach this ideology in the schools. And, YES, they are trying to teach it. Where the problem comes in is when the LGBQT community tries to force THEIR views onto the conservative family. Christian families want nothing to do with this ideology. We don’t want it in our schools, in our businesses, in our churches or in our families.”
So the issue Robin raises is the pushing of an ideology – it’s called gender ideology (the hint is right in the first term: transGENDER). In this criticism, she has a valid and accurate point: it IS an ideology and it IS being pushed.
You’ve taken it around the bend into saying come to this site, “to specifically tell Scottie that his happiness is evil.”
This is why I call you out for gaslighting. This is NOT what Robin came here to say. You’ve just waved away her actual point and done your best to malign her character and misrepresent her words and probably feel pretty good about yourself doing so. You should look at that behaviour not for what it feels like but for what it says about your own motivations.
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Tildeb, you sound like a stupid broken record. Schools are teaching tolerance. Schools are teaching kids that they can be happy. If you think a straight kid can be taught to be gay, you are hopelessly stupid or hopelessly confused.
Bottom line, telling someone they are inherently evil is being a hater.
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My hope, the spartanatheist, is that you return from your delusions of what you believe people must have said (and must have meant) and actually return to the points raised in the actual conversation.
Gender ideology does not teach tolerance; it teaches gender ideology. The two are not synonymous but actually antonyms. There is zero tolerance by gender ideologues for any other framing of reality – like biological sex – that conflicts with the Just So story our children are being indoctrinated to believe. That you believe gender ideology means tolerance doesn’t make it so and reality offers us unlimited examples of its intolerance to what is actually true. Case in point: in humans, sex is binary. Stating that fact on Twitter used to get you banned and labelled as a transphobe. Stating it in class will still get you fired. Saying so on stage will get you disinvited. And so on. Nothing but intolerance.
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Gish gallop much?
Two sexes. Many genders. Born not learned. You are a hater. Let Scottie love anyone he wants.
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Two sexes? That’s not what’s being taught! Many genders? Yes, that is being taught along with compulsory pronouns (They, She, He, Easy as ABC… kindergarten curriculum, They, She, He, Free to be Me, Grade 1 curriculum, BTW).
You believe you understand gender ideology to be about equality rights for gays and lesbians. And so you believe you understand what’s being taught in public schools is actually tolerance. You presume gays and lesbians belong in the ‘group’ called 2SLGBTQ+ and so any criticism of gender ideology naturally means it necessarily must be intolerant of gays like Scottie. Neither your beliefs nor presumptions are true in fact. You simply have your beliefs and speak based on those as if in a position to correct others less tolerant than yourself. This is the problem in that you are absolutely closed to compelling evidence from reality contrary to your beliefs and presumptions. You are closed to self correcting. This is a guaranteed way to fool yourself and think you’re working on behalf of angels, so to speak, rather than the evil you attribute to those who disagree with you.
As a teacher, I’m telling you the truth that gender ideology has captured not only the profession of teaching but has been inserted throughout curriculum. It is being taught from K-12. That’s just a fact. (And it’s only ONE of the critical theory areas being taught!) Legal protection for this ideological stealth attack has been inserted into laws here in Canada to make any criticism of gender or gender identity a hate crime. Any counselling other than affirmation only for a child’s gender-of-the-day feelings is similarly treated as ‘conversion therapy’, now yet another legal addition to what constitutes a prohibited discrimination, a hate crime. It’s a perfect little circle jerk.
The same is true for every medical and counselling profession. Gender only. Gender identity only. No such thing as 2 sexes. Two sexes is bigotry and intolerance, you see. This is why the lewd man who dresses in the obscene prosthetic breasts and then teaches his shop class with his fetish clearly on display can do so: he claims it’s part of his female gender identity and there’s nothing the Board for which he works can do about it without altering the ethical guidelines by the College of Teachers to ‘respect’ the prohibitions that define discrimination. And none of directors in any of these positions of College authority in any profession, any institution, any government bureaucracy, are prepared to grow a spine and stand against this rising tide of reality denying critical ideology. (Again, gender is just ONE branch of the critical ideology attacking our national foundations.)
This is what ‘captured’ means.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with ‘hating’ Scottie or denying gays equality rights in law. Nothing. It has everything to do with indoctrinating children to become gender practitioners (and good little Red Guards in their daily lives… children are also taught by example that you simply cannot trust any parent who disagrees with the school’s mandated gender curriculum (just ask ex-Governor Terry McAuliffe how that played out for him) and there are literally hundreds and hundreds of cases where parents are kept out of the information loop when it comes to their child’s gender identity selection and activities of these gender-organized events at school).
To your point here about 2 sexes for humans is a claim that is apparently ‘bigotry’ and ‘transphobia’. Are you bigoted and transphobic? Claiming 2 sexes makes you so, thespartanatheist. That’s the problem we face… together. Intolerance. Did you know that you could be punished for saying as much as a teacher? Are you comfortable with that? Do you feel this framing is still ‘tolerant’?
Again, the evidence from reality is overwhelming that respecting reality’s 2 sexes for humans will cause never ending trouble for you, will and has caused closures, firings, fines, reeducation, threats, careers destroyed, and so on. None of this would be happening if, as you insist, what was being taught to these vulnerable children was truly ‘tolerance’ and ‘diversity’ and ‘equity’.
What is being taught is gender ideology. Not the same thing.
The denialism of reality is necessary to maintain this critical ideology. The vilification of any and all critics is necessary to protect it. No tolerance for dissenting views is a necessary feature to demonstrate one’s gender bona fides. And the way to accomplish this for activists everywhere (even if they don;t know they are one) is to vilify, demean, and question the character and hidden dark motivations of those Terrible People who do not go along with the charade. That’s who you’re working for here but fooled into believing you are defending Scottie’s right to be gay and treated fairly and honestly as a person.
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tildeb, are you telling me YOU are a first-person witness to this egregious grooming behavior? Why would you not LEAD with that?
Tell us all the MOST EGREGIOUS example you have personally witnessed.
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I would like nothing better than to point to a single example and be able to say, Look: here’s an egregious example of grooming. But that’s rarely the case.
I don’t call it grooming because that’s not what’s really happening, although holding secret invitation only drag shows in high schools by students dressing in drag with local drag queens supervising and advising and without any parental consent whatsoever could be considered grooming. So, too, could story time led by drag queens in elementary school libraries making sexualized comments to primary students doesn’t help. Enticing students of teacher identified questionable gender and vulnerable (almost always with autism diagnoses) in middle schools to join noon hour gay/straight clubs where lessons on how to transition and done secretly from parents is the central feature also is a bit of problem. So too is pretending a student’s feelings and ongoing name and pronoun changes is somehow okay. What’s happening overall, however, is a hostile takeover of education to a radical socialist doctrine that divides people on the basis of immutable characteristics into competing groups. In Canada, the main push is for First Nation privilege to ‘make up for’ colonization. So it’s not just gender; it’s also race, ethnicity, class, and religion.
For what I think is the most egregious example of this toxic ideology in action, a Nobel prize winning author was disinvited from speaking to the high school girls who had organized for her to come talk to them. The Board ruled that because the Yazidi author who saw her brothers and father beheaded and her mother raped and killed, who was herself raped, sold, and married repeatedly to ISIS fighters, who escaped and then wrote her story that cast these Muslims in a ‘poor light’, the Board in its virtuous considerations thought the local Muslim community might be offended and so the invitation was rescinded. We wouldn’t want to offend anyone with the truth. Then certain activists (as far as I know, none were actually Muslim but white rich kids determined to prove their virtue by using their well known family connections and reputation as major donors), lobbied the libraries to deny access to room rentals and the universities closed their doors… to avoid stirring up any controversy and perhaps affect their donations. This was Toronto.
I know this doesn’t fit the bill of grooming, but it does show the extent of this ideological capture. Ontario’s Ministry of Education now appoints gender studies graduates as commissars to evaluate individual teachers based on how well students demonstrate their gender activism. Boards are obligated to have the gender ‘experts’ on their panel to vote for funding allocations based on how well schools implement gender ideology. It’s unbelievable and yet… here we are.
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Tildeb, do not gish gallop. One example you have witnessed please.
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Told to line up with class (Grade 4) on an in-school parade route to ‘celebrate’ a female Grade 6 student (10 years old) becoming a boy.
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Okay, great. So then what egregious thing happened?
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It not only normalizes gender ideology but tries to celebrate it without informing students who see the positive attention with treating a ‘feeling’ with bone loss, sterility, and a much higher probability of ‘choosing’ life long medicalization and significant health risks. No amount of biological intervention is going change this girl’s female inheritance and absolutely no concern whatsoever for her autism that may very well be driving these ‘feelings’.
When gender ideology becomes more important to publicly support than the health and welfare of children affected by it, thespartanatheist, we have an egregious situation. That’s not what education is supposed to be about. Granted, you want the term ‘egregious’ that you introduced to be the issue here so as to argue the scope and depth of what constitutes a word. I am far more concerned about how this ideological institutional capture promotes and celebrates harm to vulnerable children in the name of teaching ‘tolerance’. The ideology of gender identity is pernicious not because I think so but because reality demonstrates this to be the case.
That’s why places like Tavistock’s gender clinic have been shuttered while thousands of lawsuits pile up at its door. The same WILL happen in North America eventually and all you ‘champions’ of this little shop of horrors called gender ideology will recede into the background and pretend you were never a supporter of it (shades of those who once supported eugenics from the early 1900s… until it became policy and reality could show the results). Instead, if history runs true to form, supporters will blame ‘government’ and tsk tsk ‘culture’ for this unfolding travesty and tragedy imposed on children.
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Curious — how is “celebrating” the transmutation of a child becoming another sex appropriate in a school? Or at any time? IMO, it should be a personal decision/action. However, in today’s society, it seems it needs to be celebrated??
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Nan, i would say it is very important for a child to have their chosen gender celebrated, and no place more important than in front of their peers.
And as I noted, we already do this ad nauseum in schools. We just don’t think about it because it is normalized.
I think a small girl being turned into a sex symbol through dresses, primping, makeup, and child beauty pageants probably does more “harm” than a transgender child having their choice celebrated. The trans child is allowed to be themselves, the pageant child is taught their worth is in their looks.
This is why I accuse tildeb of not actually caring about children, only in trying to find excuses to cover for hate.
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Yes, through the framing of gender ideology, you outline why this is done. It seems to be a really good thing… on the surface. But note public schools do not parade detransitioners whose hearts and other organs have been damaged by binding, whose painful skin grafts have resulted in several if not dozens of surgeries and life-threatening infections, or the autistic person whose emotional condition and suicide ideation worsens after several years of transitioning and coming to the slow realization that their issues do not transition away. This side of the ‘celebration’ is always hidden from the recruits, so to speak, and decried when raised as ‘transphobia’ and ‘hate’ (you seem to have settled on ‘butthurt’). But you see, thespartanatheist, this ‘other side’ is very much part of the reality… two sides and not just a single framing that makes the ideologue feel good about him- or herself (ever so virtuous for championing the Oppressed in the face of Evil).
Kids develop and change all the time in all kinds of ways. But cherry picking ‘gender’ in public schools — especially prepubescent children – as if it were a really important aspect (and you keep raising the gender stereotypes I as a teacher have to fight against to allow every individual the freedom and respect to follow their own paths) serves not the child busy navigating their way in various ways and directions to adulthood but the ideologue. It’s not the ideologue raising any red flags, not the ideologue pointing out the potential harm. That’s left entirely to the ‘transphobes’, ‘haters’, and those who have been ‘butthurt’ apparently. So when gender ideology is pushed in schools but comes fraught with so much unrecognized, unspoken, unrevealed but very common danger and harm, then it requires the adults in the room to step in and point it out as a legitimate concern – not out of hatred and bigotry as you are so freely, amply, and more than willing to attribute but – out of responsible duty of care you’ve bulldozed into triviality while insisting every professional must do the same to be ‘tolerant’.
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Tildeb, you keep saying stuff that is stupid. “Pushing the gender ideology” is as worthless a phrase as any I’ve heard. Nobody is trying to change anything except letting people be who they are. This is not about you, or your friends, or your religious zealot hater groups. This is about a single person. One single person. And that person deserves to be respected. As does the next person. Not hated. Respected. Try that.
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Hey Tildeb. We have talked about you repeating disinformation! I have shown you the latest peer reviewed studies that show that only 2.4% of transition people regret that and try to reverse it. And the studies show often it is because of social pressure due to family / friends. And out of those that do try to reverse it another large percentage end up returning to the transitioned gender after outside pressure to detransition is gone. What you are doing is trying to say because 2.4% might have an issue the 97.6 that are glad they transitioned and are living as the gender they identify should be denied it.
As to schools it is just allowing kids to be themselves, live their lives as they are not made to conform to a straight cis society. That is your big celebration. Recently the same group that has spear headed anti-trans acceptance in schools has said that gay kids shouldn’t be in the same classes as normal kids. Let that sink in, it puts this entire anti-trans crusade in full perspective.
No one is recruiting. Again that myth has been debunked the last time we had a weeks long session over this topic. The idea kids are being pushed into transitioning is a lie. The data shows that there are actually less kids transitioning, but that it is more open now so more seen. It was like how once gay kids were not targeted and beaten up for being open about being gay more kids admitted to be gay. I am so tried of you ignoring the accepted science and accredited studies that totally debunk your right wing myths to repeat the same right wing talking points over and over. I have posted these studies right here on my blog. I get real angry have to refute the same lies. Hugs
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Hello Nan. What is missed is that in our society straight cis life is celebrated and it is on constant display.
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Hello Nan. I realize I have been away from the comments for three days (and I told you why), and I admit I love that they have gone on totally without my involvement (also a bit sad not to have been part of the discussion / conversation but it is getting more that I won’t be able to do so) But what do you mean by celebration a transitioning of a child? Do you mean like a birthday? Like a bar mitzvah for Jewish boys? How about all the other things we celebrate for kids like different awards for sports, for clubs like the Boy Scouts, is that what you mean? Or is it just so unusual to let young people be their authentic self without making them the target for abuse that it seems we are celebrating them. How often did I hear from some anti-gay hater that they did not mind gays but why did they have to flaunt themselves and push their lifestyle in people’s faces. Hey they would say they don’t have anything against gay but why do they have to hold hands in public instead of keeping it in their homes. So on and so on. In other words, gays doing everyday things that straights do is gays pushing themselves on others. That is how trans kids / adults are being perceived right now, they just want to do what other people do and live their lives as themselves openly as everyone should have a right to do. Hugs
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Hello Tildeb. I want to address a couple things you claim to point out how silly your right wing talking points of horror are. You wrote “ So too is pretending a student’s feelings and ongoing name and pronoun changes is somehow okay ” Let me tell you for a teacher as you claim to be you are unaware that teachers have been using kids preferred names / nick names forever. It never was a big deal. If a kid named Theodore wanted to be called Ace or Skip the teacher went along with it. With the new anti-LGBTQ+ laws and what you are endorsing teachers would have to use strictly what is on the child’s birth certificate. Also the idea that drag queens are somehow bad for kids ignores that drag queens have been on TV and the stage since at least the 1950’s, and as Beau of the Fifth Column pointed out the US military endorsed drag shows including supplying how to guides with dress patterns. Bob Hope often did drag in his movies and shows. This entire drag being bad is a ginned-up issue to make political hay. Hugs
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Scottie, the ONGOING name and pronoun changes are a problem for several reasons that have nothing to do with personal preferences by teachers. Teacher’s have been and continue to be disciplined and their professional reputations harmed by being accused of ‘dead naming’ any of these students even though the name or pronoun was acceptable the prior week but has since changed at the whim of the student. That’s all it takes; a whim. In practice, ongoing name changes inserts a concern that was never there previously and cause teachers some level of stress and justified concern.
Professionally, ongoing name changes affects the school’s bureaucracy. Names that appear in print – for whatever reason – now have to be repeatedly screened by someone who may or may not be aware of recent changes. Add to the fact this ‘correct’ naming of students is mandated to be kept secret from parents raises a level of dishonesty to be practiced by school staff, assistants, administrators, and even custodians who have no choice in the matter. All are told to be constantly updated and in unison or face some kind of discipline. Gender ideology in this case is a mandated ideology that elevates the whim of a student over the professions tasked to educate them. Many students abuse this policy and teachers are held to account.
Now, throw in the fact that many students with diagnosed deficits, psychopathologies, and relational issues and who must be kept as a ‘special case’ for individualized education plans that must be submitted and approved, are granted blank slate immunity from any affects their name and pronoun changing causes, and you have a recipe for diverting attention away from education and towards what is often termed ‘political correctness’. In your response you indicated absolutely no awareness of any of this but felt comfortable enough doubting that I as a teacher might, that I must be unaware of nick names, for crying out loud, and suggesting that my concerns were due to some imported bigotry… because that’s the gender ideologue’s playbook. Once again you show that reality itself plays no important role in your beliefs about it because you believe you ALREADY KNOW. That’s just like a religious belief, Scottie. And that should raise a red flag to you.
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Oh and before I forget, remember I raised the gender ideology in action with the Oakville teacher and his huge prosthetic breasts you tried to discredit first as having no reliable source and secondly by insisting it must be right wing stunt? Well, here’s yet another article of this ongoing gong show here. Notice that it is parents organizing legal action against the Board and this school’ administrators for failing to uphold professional standards and ethics versus the Board trying to uphold legal standards. This is the result of imposing gender ideology and compelled respect for ‘gender identity’ in education. It is ALWAYS divisive and destructive and has nothing whatsoever to do with student welfare and tolerance.
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Hello Tildeb. Again this is not gender ideology. WTF. You should recognize a troll when you see one. This is a person trying to push an anti-trans point with the idea of getting fired so he can sue the board. This is not a trans person, this is not someone with gender dysphoria. This is not someone who identifies as a different gender than assigned at birth. This is a mockery. I was correct the first time. His students all say he is a vocal extreme bigot who hated trans and in your words the trans ideology. I think that what really irks you about him is you didn’t think of doing it first.
It has nothing to do with imposing the idea of tolerance and acceptance for people who really are transitioning, that do identify as a different gender than assigned at birth. Those people are real, they exist, they are not pretending as this guy clearly is. The only thing that is divisive and destructive is the bigots causing trouble with hateful jerks attacking people just trying to live their life as themselves. These are the same attacks as was directed at gay men back 50 years ago. This guy is nothing different than the people that would do campy walking with lisps to mock gay people. We did not forget that people like you did that then and you he is mocking trans people with this over the top exaggeration also. It really is all about hate and refusal to accept that society has moved on from what you are comfortable with. Grow up. Hugs
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I seem to have a mental disability closing links with a rather than a . Again, my bad with my apologies.
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Robin, welcome to the world of gaslighting. You’re not crazy.
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Glad to see there’s others out there that see the world as it really is. Thank you Tildeb.
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Hello Robin. Several points again. Tolerance of differences is not tolerance of intolerance. See I can be very tolerant of different religions, but I am not tolerant of those religions telling me how I have to live. There is a difference. What you are asking for is because you don’t like something you want the rest of us to be tolerant of you banning it from public schools and society. Sorry it doesn’t work that way.
Teaching explicit details in schools of … I assume you meant gays and lesbians as that was just before this. Robin most schools cannot even get sex educations classes approved, anything more than abstinence is thought to be explicit and lewd. Get real here. You say you know it, it has been proved. Please send us the proof, educate us. But if your going to send right wing media garbage I will mock you. Just warning you ahead of time. Send us pictures of the schools having these classes.
Once again no one needs to be tolerant of acting intolerantly. You can have any opinion you want and that is tolerated. You can say wrongly that LGBTQI+ people should be killed. That is your right. But you cannot act on it. Once you start trying to do so no one needs to tolerate it anymore. Understand the difference. You can feel that acceptance of LGBTQI+ in schools is wrong, that is your right. But when you try to exclude LGBTQI+ people from schools and being accepted by schools then that is when no one has to tolerate your action anymore. Hugs
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I wish you nothing but the best in your pursuit, God bless you!
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What was it, tildeb, Jesus had to say about puffed-up pontificating pontificaters puffed-up-edly pontificating on street corners?
Oh, yeah, that’s right, put it in the closet.
Matthew 6:5-6:
When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.
You want bonus points for that?
Matthew 6:1-3 (just prior to the above). Do it because it’s the right thing to do.
You have your reward …
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If I am transgender I must be lesser than?
If I am gay I must be lesser than?
If I am black I must be lesser than?
If I am native I must be lesser than?
If I am irish, italian, northern, southern….?
If I am jewish i must be lesser than?
If I am poor I must be lesser than?
…
If I am human I MUST BE RESPECTED!
Stop equivocating hate.
Fucking grow up america.
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meant to put a ! after respected
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Hello Randy. You grand wonderful brother. I fixed it. Thank you. I don’t understand how even someone as slow and backwards as I can get a concept that you can spell out so clearly that so many others can not seem to grasp. Thank you and hugs.
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Scottie, I got to tell you; I’m so damned tired of reading prevarications and long winded diatribes by supposedly intelligent people describe how we should find ways to deny the humanity of certain people for this or that reason. No matter how many times it’s been said, the question of “when did ‘you’ decide you were hetero?” has never been enough to get through to some people that, especially in this culture now, being gay surely is not a choice, or at least it isn’t any easy one. I will advance that to questions of “when did you decide you were really a boy, a girl?” And what? It’s contagious? If given an option, you are going to decide you are really a girl when everything in you says you are a boy? Or, you are going to be gay when everything in you says you find girls attractive? So we have to somehow stop a person from being proud, of being genuine, of being free?
Scottie, people are born daily with problems, with birth miscues and mix-ups. People are born with both genders, with no discernable gender, with a twin conjoined, without eyes, limbs, and there is such a thing as chimera syndrome and even where the organs are mirrored to where they belong. Shit happens, and to stand there and wax intelligent about how one will and will not allow a human being to be themself is arrogant and distasteful in every extreme. Fuck these people! I’m tired of them. You don’t want to be gay, don’t be! You don’t want to be trans, don’t be!! Otherwise, shut up and go play. People have a right to live.
And, to those who declare upon the pulpit they pound that there are teachers advancing hypersexualized literature and teaching methods, I have to tell you that I know a lot of teachers who would find that reprehensible in any direction. These are typically a very dedicated and serious lot of people who have a horribly difficult job and do the very best they can to teach math, reading, history and tech. I would bet there are idiots doing something extreme, as there is in EVERYTHING. But, 99.99% want to give the best education to the kids they can, and do it with a load of parents vacillating from uncaring to micromanaging.
Jesus, people. Why have you yet not figured out that these politicians and pulpit pounders are interested only in the power that their engineered chaos brings them as you lemmings rush from atrocity to atrocity.
Damn, brother, I’m so tired….
sorry. This got away from me.
I made a very interesting lemon poppyseed bread with fresh raspberries that were on sale at the store today. I’m curious as to what it tastes like.
Hugs
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Hello Randy. The bread sounds great! Don’t be sorry, you said everything very well. I am waiting for Robin to get back to me on what sex gay people can have that straight people cannot have also. I am excited as I might learn a new sex thing. But Randy you know teachers, Ron’s family has teachers also. We know what struggles they have. We also know most schools do not have comprehensive sex education instead teaching abstinence and if you kiss too hard you will get a disease and a baby. So how exactly are teachers teaching a homosexual ideology? First what is it, a special way of walking? A different way of talking? Do they have to teach Gaydar? Or is it how to snap your finger and give sassy responses? Just what is the gay ideology. See I have been gay all my life and I don’t have a gay ideology, I just am. I exist and oh by the way I am gay. What the right wing media really means when they say that schools are teaching homosexual ideology is the schools are teaching tolerance and acceptance. What the right means by teachers teaching homosexuality ideology is that teachers are stopping bullying and wont let some kids oppress, persecute, or attack other kids for being gay. That is what the right hates. No one is teaching gender Ideology; they are teaching it is OK that a few kids don’t identify as a boy or girl. What the heck is gender ideology anyway?
Do you remember back in the 1990s it was all the gay agenda? The gay agenda this the gay agenda that. What the heck was the gay agenda I would ask myself as I went to work, as I sat at the table paying my bills, as I cleaned my home, as I watched TV, as I did exactly what all the straight people were doing. Then I though what was the straight agenda, should I worry about that also? Seems like this is the same thing to me. It is just more fear stoking. Hugs
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Hello Randy. Yes, a 100 times Yes. Humans must be acknowledged for who they are. Simply existing is not something anyone should be ashamed of. Throughout history one group or the next has been made the scape goat or to be the ones hated, only to find out later that it is a natural part of life. Interestingly to me is that some things that were accepted as natural became the scapegoat when those in charge needed one to hide their own crimes / failings. Love you brother. Hugs
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For an excellent article (3 minute read) describing the central difference between biology and gender ideology, go here. (Pay attention to why Wright had to leave the profession altogether.) But don’t be surprised if our host immediately vilifies the source/context at which these differences – contents – are offered. (Biologist Colin Wright and physicist Sean Carroll on Jerry Coyne’s website.) This tactic is always a strong indicator for the use of motivated reasoning.
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Oops… I failed to close the link after the word ‘here’. Apologies.
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So you personally are butt hurt. That is the problem.
Doctors explain risks and rewards of everything they do. That is not your place to stick your nose.
Little boys and girls are celebrated as little boys and girls ALL THE TIME. You just don’t think about it until something you are butt hurt about happens. Boys and girls are split in separate bathrooms before they even mature to a sexual age. Boys and girls are given pink or blue. Little girls are put in dresses and taught to shake their booty before pre-school. Little boys are put in pants and taught to play rough. But if a girl feels like and wants to be a boy, you get butt hurt.
Sorry, but niggers get to use our bathrooms. Oops! Lol! I did it again. I mean LGBTQ+ people get to use our bathrooms.
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Butt hurt? What are you talking about?
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Butt hurt. Feelings hurt. Crying like a bitch. Whining. Acting like a spoiled child.
That is your only actual problem. You are butt hurt. Everything else you said is demonstrable bullshit, as I, you know, demonstrated.
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Umm… what colour is the sky in your world?
My feelings have nothing to do with the concerns I raised and none of it is bullshit. So I have no clue how you think you’ve demonstrated it is other stooping to name calling. That’s disturbingly weird.
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You know what, tildeb? I think I just realized we may have a communication problem. You spelled color with the “u”, and you were unfamiliar with the phrase “butt hurt”. So I assume you may be of the Brittish english speaking variety of person, and well, you may miss some of my American inferences and phrases.
So let’s try again clearly.
Doctors always discuss the risks and rewards of procedures. And in the case of gender reassignment, the list of doctors in the room increases. The person is quite aware of what the risks are. And many transgender children face horrible mental stress in trying to determine who they really are. Transgender children commit suicide. And thus many children, and their parents, are very well aware of the risks and the rewards and chose the rewards. But the bottom line is it is none of your fucking business. It is a medical decision between doctor, patient, and patient’s parents. Not you. So your “concerns” related to medical issues are not valid. They are just you trying to justify your hatred.
Secondly, we sexualize children ALL THE TIME, but you don’t notice it. We assign them bathrooms, lines, clothing choices, colors, jewelry choices, hair styles, toys, etc. In many ways, we sexualize children worse than ever in history. Little boys AND little girls all wore dresses 100 years ago. Just look at baby pictures of President Franklin D. Roosevelt. He is in a dress. A dress was seen as a baby-neutral clothing option that was easy to tend to the baby’s bathroom habits. But now, boys have to wear boy stuff and girls have to wear girl stuff, all years before they reach the age of sexual maturity. In many communities, little girls as young as 4 are primped and paraded in beauty contests. And given the choice between letting a child tell us what they feel, vs telling them they have to be pretty for people to like them, I will chose the first one every time.
So no, your point about sexualization is not valid, as you have no problem sexualizing children AT ALL unless that child doesn’t want to be what YOU want that child to be.
Thus, as I said before, and now with clarity, the points you raise are not valid, they are only you imposing what you want onto the reality of the situation and being a hater about it.
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SA, you write: It is a medical decision between doctor, patient, and patient’s parents.
So WHY has it become so newsworthy? WHY can’t it remain within the confines of the individuals you mentioned? WHY must it be “celebrated” in a classroom? Or on social networking? (Or on Scottie’s blog?)
Personally I have mixed feeling about this whole “gender” thing, but from my perspective, it has become a topic that reaches FAR too deeply into the personal lives of the affected individuals.
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Because we already focus on gender. We call people “he” and “she” in normal conversation. And let’s face it, we see each other as sexual. So if someone that is born and assigned “woman” wants to change, you are right in that we shouldn’t care and it should be a private decision. But as soon as that person walks into public, then what? If a transgender former woman uses the men’s bathroom, we shouldn’t care, but it causes a fuss.
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Hello Nan. Again who is pushing the issue? What group is putting it in the media and trying to pass laws against even mentioning the words gay or trans? Republicans, conservatives, and the right wing media. Christian parents flooding the school board meetings. Who is making drag queen story hours to be in the media and being a flash point. It is not the drag queens; it is the haters trying to stop them. What you call celebrating is simply letting a kid be open about themselves. Dogs that love gravy I wish I could have been open about being gay in school in the 1970s when I had to listen to people quote Anita Bryant claim that homosexuals all molested kids to recruit new members. Back then everything I heard about gay people was they were even more horrible monsters than the last thing I heard. I knew I was not those things but there were no good role models in the schools, no one TV, no one in movies, and there were no positive stories in the libraries. That is the goal of these anti-trans anti-gay people, drive us back to the bad days of open discrimination. Nan try reversing the situation, what if the majority were gay and trans and the cis straight kids were the ones in the closet being hated on. But schools were pushing acceptance of straight cis kids and they started to come out and living as straight cis kids without fear of being attacked. Would that be celebrating straight cis kids or just letting them live openly. See the right wants to paint being gay or trans as evil because they think their holy book says that. But gay and trans are not evil, it is simply a part of nature. The guy who wrote the don’t say gay bill in Florida admitted that he did it because he couldn’t stand that gay kids were coming out in school and being accepted instead of targeted for abuse. He wanted those gay / trans kids attacked and persecuted / oppressed so they would stay hidden. Yes he was an old “highly religious” white man. Hugs
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This whole situation reminds me of the battle between Christians and atheists. Both sides can “quote scripture” to prove their point. But really … who wins in the end?
Forcing an issue will never win supporters.
“Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.” –Carl Jung
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Hello Nan. Nan forcing the issue on one side makes the gays / trans / lesbians and the rest of the community go away like in Russia who now has made it illegal to be LGBTQI+ in public in anyway except to spout the negatives about it. Want to have a pride flag or a movie with a gay character, that is illegal. Want to go on TV or make a move about how horrible and bad / diseased being gay is, that is allowed. That is one side of forcing the issue.
The other side is where I am. Forcing the issue lets gay / trans / lesbian and the rest of the community live our lives openly with equality.
I disagree that forcing the issue never wins supporters, the opposite has been shown to be true. Again look at Russia forcing hate and bigotry into law, look at the “don’t say gay” bills in Florida and other red states. They are converting a lot of right wing haters.
On the other hand in my life, I went from having to leave a successful military career because a new commander was old school bigot who hated gays and I was rather well know and liked openly gay. He made it clear if I reupped again in his command he would ruin me. I went from being attacked at work, openly denied for promotion when I scored the highest on the interview tests because “no man going to take orders from a faggot”, and so much more to being openly accepted in my community and having a legally recognized marriage. To being just another person in society who happened to be an openly gay man in a same sex marriage.
It was all because gays got in people’s faces, we became open despite the attacks, we came out in families that did not accept us at first, we let it be known we were doctors, lawyers, lumber jacks, store clerks, hair stylists and in every aspect of public life. We forced ourselves into movies, TV shows, and into books. Guess what, that forcing our issue won for us. Think of it this way, the accepted way never changes unless people make it change. Every decade, every election, every new discovery, it must be made an issue to be accepted. Hugs
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Wow, thespartanatheist, thank you for the gish gallop. However, when you mandate professional behaviour to account for a new reality-denying ideology be imposed in education, you bet it becomes the professional’s business. We do have a code of ethics that supersedes such preferred ideology, btw. It’s just that not too many professionals are willing to pay the price to maintain them. And that price is growing steeper all the time, which is why so many are leaving the profession altogether. Most administrators , trustees, doctors, councillors, and politicians involved in mandating such pedagogy do not have the same professional code of ethics as teachers (not that you would know or care). All the rest of your comment is heading so far off the rails that it reveals a very confused state of mind, not least of which is missing the fact I’m Canadian… where we do our best to spell words correctly!
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God damn. Gish gallop? I clarified, and I DIRECTLY refuted your points. And since you lost, you accuse me of gish galloping.
This is not reality denying. It is reality. I dont care if your religion says beating slaves is okay, women are property, and gay people are evil. Those are all wrong. Gay people exist, trans people exist, and you are just gonna have to live with that.
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Hello thespartanatheist. I should warn you and everyone that Tildeb doesn’t discuss in good faith. He is simply pushing anti-trans talking points non-stop. He is really a right winger and in most respects an anti-trans troll. As you are seeing he won’t ever admit he is wrong even when his right wing misinformation and lies are refuted with backed up data and evidence. He likes to misdirect and make wildly incorrect statements as if they were proven facts, that when reviewed are easily debunked. What happens when I argue with him after a few days he repeats the same things we already went over and I debunked with facts and evidence. He even tried to use the Florida department of health as a source of his anti-trans information, the same people that are anti-Covid vaccine, anti- mask, and pro Ivermectin as a Covid cure. Hugs
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Hi, Scottie. Yeah, he is a dipshit and a troll. But maybe someone else will read his hater bullshit, and read our responses, and realize acceptance is better than bigotry.
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Scottie, I know you and tildeb have a “history,” but in this current discussion, I don’t think he is “anti-trans” as much as he is against misleading (or missing) information from individuals who have NOT done all the research and instead are basing their statements on hearsay and/or opinions of others.
IMO, it’s important to note that he HAS provided documentation for his stance … just as you have provided some for yours. When push comes to shove, it’s really NO different than the debate between believers and atheists. 🙂
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Hello Nan. I disagree. When I provide documentation and evidence, it is accepted by the medical community and when he does it, he provides fringe stuff not accepted as creditable. And Nan to be honest if you followed the last time we did two weeks of discussion between us and read the stuff I posted during then you have to admit that. Tildeb tried to use Florida department of health for dogs that love gravy’s sake. Tildeb is not being honest by repeating the same things I showed accepted studies debunking. By bring that same stuff back up that him and I went over and I showed with evidence he was wrong is being anti-trans activist and also it is being a disingenuous troll. He is pushing the same anti-trans stuff that has been debunked just as the anti Covid / anti vaccine groups push stuff that claim that Ivermectin is a cure for Covid. He makes claims I have already addressed with clear medically accepted science showing he is wrong, and he keeps doing it. Nan that is not honest. He uses front line doctors that were led by a “doctor” who claimed that hydroxychloroquine is a “cure for covid. Is this equal to approved medical studies accepted by the medial community?
Here is one of the sources and people Tildeb used to promote his view on trans people. You tell me if that should equal the AMA. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/09/florida-surgeon-general-demon-sperm-capitol-rioter-connections.html
Ask yourself this. Why do all the major medical organizations disagree with Tildeb’s stance? Why do the AMA and the major pediatric care associations say Tildeb and those that say what he does are wrong. Why do all these medical organizations say gender affirming care for gender differing kids is the best medical practice? Is Tildeb more of a medical expert on the issue of trans care than these groups?
Leading medical groups recognize the medical necessity of treatments for gender dysphoria and endorse such treatments. Most of these groups have also explicitly rejected insurance exclusions for transgender-related care.
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
American Academy of Dermatology
American Academy of Family Physicians
American Academy of Nursing
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Academy of Physician Assistants
American College Health Association
American College of Nurse-Midwives
American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
American College of Physicians
American Counseling Association
American Heart Association
American Medical Association
American Medical Student Association
American Nurses Association
American Osteopathic Association
American Psychiatric Association
American Psychological Association
American Public Health Association
American Society of Plastic Surgeons
Endocrine Society
GLMA: Health Professionals Advancing LGBTQ Equality
National Association of Nurse Practitioners in Women’s Health
National Association of Social Workers
National Commission on Correctional Health Care
Pediatric Endocrine Society
Society for Adolescent Health and Medicine
World Medical Association
World Professional Association for Transgender Health
Hugs
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“When I provide documentation and evidence, it is accepted by the medical community and when he does it, he provides fringe stuff not accepted as creditable.”
Yeah, the the Cass report (Feb 2022). Totally fringe. That entire countries and their health ministries respect its findings and have implemented corrected policies must be based on information that simply isn’t credible. This report’s findings is what the Florida’s report also found, but hey, you know it must be political rather than medical because Scottie says so and can quote the AAP and every other captured medical organization that refers to WPATH guidance as ‘the science’. Note that WPATH this year removed all age limits for chemical and surgical interventions and accepted castration as a legitimate gender state. Yeah, nothing fringe here folks. Just move along. Trust only the voice behind the gender curtain. Don’t let reality interfere with a good belief system. None of this have you’ve bunked, Scottie. And the evidence against WPATH’s recommendation and every captured organization you list here is mounting mostly from those who understand that Affirmation Only is not and can never be a therapeutic approach but a simple rubber stamping of approval for any and all ‘gender identity’ decision. None of this is inaccurate or even outside the mainstream. It is simply vilified because it criticizes gender ideology in action with compelling evidence from reality of very real harm done to real people in its name. Especially children. Why that harm to real children in real life doesn’t concern you more than the blanket support of an ideology you maintain is a true mystery to me. Are you really that far gone that you can wave away so much harm to kids believing that it’s just a trivial number?
How many of the 42,000 on reddit’s detransitioning streams, Scottie. So far. That ain’t trivial. And the most common complaint? LACK of medical oversight. But hey, you know better.
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As a “bystander,” I can see where BOTH of you are coming from … and while I’m certain you won’t agree, you are actually very close in your outlooks. The problem arises because you’re each approaching the topic from very different perspectives …
YOU feel individuals should have total freedom to follow their personal feelings/instincts/leanings as related to gender. Plus, the fact that the “medical society” has recognized such anomalies is further evidence to you that the condition is “real” so you believe a personal should be able to be proceed.
On the other hand, tildeb ALSO recognizes that gender anomalies exist, but he says WAIT … give it some time … don’t be coerced by peer and/or societal pressures and opinions into making decisions that you may regret down the line. And he provides data that backs up this approach.
One last thing — there is little doubt in my mind that you see this issue as an extension of what you have had to go through most of your life … and you’re determined that others won’t have to share those same experiences. And that’s a good thing.
Now I’m done. I will not be saying any more on this topic.
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Scottie, you completely mischaracterize my contributions and on purpose. I bring forward all kinds of legitimate counter examples from world renowned expertise that you summarily dismiss because you believe you know better, that you have ‘science’ on your side. You don’t. You have ideology and ideologues on your side. From yet another doctor outraged on behalf of her patients…
“I still believe in the importance of expertise, but I believe that part of the reason kids with gender distress are receiving such poor healthcare is the rise of the gender affirmative industry, which silos those with gender dysphoria away from the general clinical population. The idea that one must claim an LGBTQ identity to administer care to a child who may or may not end up being part of that population—that’s related to the larger cultural privileging of “lived experience” over research, objectivity, and expertise. We see this in the own voices movement in literature, for instance: One must only write about one’s own identity and community. It’s also leaked into journalism: One must not report on a cohort to which one doesn’t belong; often you’ll see demands for only trans reporters to report on trans issues when an article is too nuanced. Subjectivity is preferable to objectivity.
This paradigm has overtaken healthcare, too, such that the lived experiences of patients seems to be outweighing the science. “Nothing about us without us” is a common saying among disability rights activists and in feminist healthcare. Perhaps you’ll recall the all-male panel making decisions about women’s healthcare from the Trump era (and, you know, most of American history). And, yes, the voices and experiences of those receiving these interventions should of course be factored into the guidelines.
The problem with “own voices,” is that it becomes “one voice.” It can lead to the idea that there’s a singular way of looking at a multifaceted story. And we always want to consider complex issues from multiple viewpoints, especially when it comes to mental health.
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Hello Spartan Atheist. Well said. Very well said. Thank you. I hope you can reach those reading along that may not fully understand the situation. Sorry but Tildeb is a lost cause and only uses these pages to push right wing misinformation and lies. Most of what he claims I have already provided accepted studies refuting including the data and evidence. When I confronted him with the major medical associations accepting as best medical practice gender affirmative care for people with different gender identity than assigned at birth he calls them captive agencies. But he pushes fringe doctors and right wing activists who are trying to outlaw gay and trans people from schools and from society via the Russian mode. Best wishes. Hugs
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I know you beleive otherwise (and so it’s therefore a fact in your mind) but it’s not about me and what I believe. It’s about respecting reality’s arbitration of the claims you continue to make. You don;t respect that. So, in regards to ‘the science’ you claim the AAP presents, consider the following:
“In 2016, the AAP established a committee on “LGBT Health & Wellness” to support “children with variations in gender presentation.” Four of the committee’s six members—Jason Rafferty, Brittany Allen, Michelle Forcier, and Ilana Sherer—work in pediatric gender clinics that prescribe puberty blockers to patients as young as 10 and cross-sex hormones to patients as young as 14.
Those treatments are part of the broader model of “gender-affirming” care that the AAP endorsed in its 2018 policy statement, “Ensuring Comprehensive Care and Support for Transgender and Gender-Diverse Children and Adolescents.” The statement, which represents the official position of the AAP, was written by a single doctor, Rafferty, and does not appear to have been reviewed by anyone else at the organization: Rafferty “conceptualized,” “drafted,” “reviewed,” “revised,” and “approved” the manuscript himself, a note at the end of the paper reads. Rafferty did not respond to a request for comment.
“There was clearly no fact-checking,” one longtime AAP member said. “The AAP thought trans was the next civil rights crusade and got boondoggled by enthusiastic young doctors.”
The 2018 statement was an extraordinary departure from the international medical consensus. Most European countries do not encourage social or physical transition until a child’s gender dysphoria has persisted for quite some time—an approach known as “watchful waiting”—in part because the dysphoria desists on its own in the majority of cases, particularly once puberty hits.
Rafferty, however, called watchful waiting “outdated” and endorsed a “gender-affirming” paradigm, in which transitioning is on the table almost as soon as a child identifies as transgender. Some of the studies he cited to support that conclusion—including a practice guideline from the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry—actually undercut it, arguing that, more often than not, “sex-reassignment” should be deferred until adulthood.
Though the policy statement conceded that puberty blockers may pose “long-term risks” to “bone metabolism and fertility,” it did not recommend any prerequisites for obtaining drugs. They could be given out at the earliest stages of puberty—meaning to children as young as 9—and, Rafferty insisted, were “reversible.”
Since then, the gap between the AAP and the rest of the world has only grown. Many European countries, including Britain, Finland, Sweden, and the Netherlands, are now curtailing or entirely eliminating the use of puberty blockers in children with gender dysphoria, citing both long-term health risks and a lack of evidence that they alleviate the condition. The AAP has nonetheless maintained its support for the drugs—which it claims have the backing of the “most prominent medical organizations worldwide”—while rejecting calls for more gatekeeping.
“The AAP says kids under 10 can’t cross the street by themselves,” one pediatrician said, referencing the group’s official recommendations on pedestrian safety, “but they can change their gender. How does that make sense?”
The contrast points to a broader tension within AAP guidance: On most kitchen table issues, from diet to screen time to exercise, the group has long encouraged a kind of safetyism, stressing the need for parental supervision and the pitfalls of pubescent judgment. Yet on trans issues, it has done nearly the opposite, suggesting that minors are mature enough to transition without their parents’ knowledge or consent.
“A family may deny access to care that raises concerns about the youth’s welfare and safety,” Rafferty’s statement says. “In such rare situations, pediatric providers may want to familiarize themselves with relevant local consent laws and maintain their primary responsibility for the welfare of the child.” It’s a stark departure from the way the group talks about other forms of body modification: one AAP report recommends that “adolescents speak with their parents” before getting tattoos, because they are “permanent,” “difficult to remove,” and “involve significant consequences.”
By 2019, Rafferty’s guidance was eliciting quiet concern among rank-and-file doctors affiliated with the AAP. “Normie pediatricians were like, ‘what’s going on,’” one doctor said, recalling the hushed conversations she had in the hallways of the AAP’s 2019 national conference, which featured a panel on gender-affirming care. Gender specialists, on the other hand, “considered themselves life-saving heroes.”
Rather than promoting dialogue or compromise between the two camps, the AAP sought to stifle dissent. In October, it urged the Department of Justice to investigate critics of “gender affirming” care, arguing they were spreading “disinformation” that puts lives at risk. That move came after the organization barred the Society for Evidence-based Gender Medicine, which advocates the watchful waiting approach, from being an exhibitor at its national conference last year. In August, it also blocked a resolution calling for a review of the AAP’s current guidance on puberty blockers, which the head of Boston Children’s Hospital’s gender clinic, Jeremi Carswell, says are “given out like candy” at her clinic.
The stifling of dissent has created an illusory medical consensus that nonetheless exerts extraordinary influence over public policy and debate. Courts have cited the AAP in cases about transgender children—Eknes-Tucker v. Marshall, for example, in which an Alabama District Court blocked a law banning puberty blockers, cross sex hormones, and gender reassignment surgeries for transgender minors (the case is now on appeal). Talking heads, meanwhile, have invoked the AAP to shut down criticism of childhood gender transition.”
And that’s what you’re doing, Scottie… accepting no criticism whatsoever form any source anywhere any time about your beliefs. And you use stuff like the AAP to offer you cover. That cover, however, is crumbling because what you believe is ‘the science’ isn’t.
BTW, in the original version from which I have quoted, almost every fact statement has a link. Hundreds and hundreds of links. Not me. It has nothing whatsoever to do with me. The issue at hand, Scottie. The issue.
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It’s not about me.
“Detransitioner Abel Garcia addresses protesters at the First Do No Harm rally of groups calling on the American Academy of Pediatrics to reverse course on its embrace of pediatric gender affirming care.
Abel Garcia received a prescription for estrogen at his very first visit to a gender clinician at the age of 19. He is one of a growing chorus of detransitioners who describe a protocol of transgender “medicine” that eschews gatekeeping entirely on principle — swapping out the normative medical practice of “diagnosis” for the distinctly non-medical practice of “affirmation.” (Edit: Did you grasp that, thespartanatheist, when it comes to countering your insistence about all those doctors and counsellors you BELIEVE are part and parcel of children becoming identified as trans and who then receive from all the professionals the very best ‘science’ of medically aided transitioning? I know… just wave it away… again.) Affirming clinicians have manufactured a cohort of young people many multiples in size larger than any before it aided by an online social contagion driven by social media influencers, some of whom have tens of millions of followers on Instagram and TikTok, selling a dream of magical transformation to confused and impressionable children around the world.
A cohort that has expanded so dramatically by stripping out the safeguards once relied upon to ensure that invasive medical procedures once carefully controlled to ensure that only those for whom the benefits would outweigh the myriads risks would be granted access tot hem must by necessity see the rate of regret and detransition expand equally dramatically.”
Now, Scottie, I suspect you’re going to continue gaslighting readers that people who have acted on gender ideology and who are some of the leading critics of it are either “fringe doctors or right wing activists”! I know, ludicrous, right?
It seems obvious to me that it requires a fairly large dose of hubris and manufactured certainty to elevate beliefs over reality. Not that long ago, however, we could usually find agreement when we found it promoted by a religious person armored by such reality-denying certainty… but now? I think I’ve remained consistent criticizing beliefs that do this, Scottie. You, I think, have been fooled into not recognizing it when you do it because you think it somehow defends homosexuality. I think you’ve been played.
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IMO, I don’t think “straight cis life” is “celebrated.” It’s just what has been the accepted standard for a multitude of years. And from my personal perspective, making such a “big deal” over the “gender issue” is just making it more difficult for those who believe they fall into the category. Of course, there are always those who crave the attention, but I daresay there are just as many or more who wish they could just blend in as normal folk.
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Hello Nan. Exactly, it is just accepted as the way things are. And there are groups fighting hard to keep it just that way, straight cis life the only accepted standard. The big deal you talk about is the non-straight cis people fighting for that same acceptance. Nan this is the same as the pre-1960s civil rights fight. Blacks want to be in white schools, blacks want to be in public office, blacks wanting equality. Don’t you think a lot of white people claimed blacks wanted special rights, special privileges, wanted to be celebrated. White people at the time felt why couldn’t blacks just accept the way it has always been. But really they just wanted to change society to be accepted as equal and have the same rights and privileges as the whites, or in this case the straight cis people.
Wow Nan. As normal folk? You just outlined the entire problem and why you have an issue with what is happening to promote acceptance in schools. Gee why couldn’t Scottie just blend in as normal folk instead of trying to hold hands with that guy in public like straight couples do? Why couldn’t that gay kid just be normal instead of having a crush on another boy? Why can’t that gender queer kid just dress and have haircuts / act like other kids do of that gender, why do they have to be weird! Because being gay and trans is normal!!!!!
Nan we are normal folk! And schools with anti-bullying programs and straight / gay alliance clubs were making great headway to promoting tolerance and acceptance of those kids that were different. It was not celebrating the trans and gay kids, it was simply letting them live like the straight cis kids always got to live. Openly as who they are. That is the fight we are having; we are normal and damn it we deserve to be treated that way and have the same rights as cis straight people. And it is the ones trying to block that, block those rights and acceptance Nan that are driving this fight. The ones putting this in the media and making it an open public spectacle are not the trans kids, not the teachers, but the hate groups / religious groups trying to stop these people from being accepted.
Ask yourself if you would have even heard of this if the libs of TikToc and the right wing governors had not made such a political issue of it? Again it is their side trying to push the issue into the public to enrage their base and energize their voting public. It is Anita Bryant all over again. Hugs
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You missed the point of my comment … but it’s my fault for even adding anything to this topic.
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Scottie, I think you are absolutely blind to the effect this ideology is having on children who would normally become gay and lesbian adults. So I offer Ander Sullivan’s perspective (you owe him – a gay man – more than any other human on the planet thanks for his tireless and effective work to make same sex marriage legal… for YOU). He says about distorting gay and lesbian concerns about equality
hijacked by the trans element in the widespread dissemination of gender ideology,
“This deep distortion of who gay people really are is also spread by the current LGBTQIA+ leadership, its unhinged academic wing, and radicalized super-rich donor class, now intent on indoctrinating gay children in queer and gender theory, telling them their gayness means they could be in the “wrong body,” and pushing so many of them into permanent medicalization, sterilization, and bodily mutilation. A movement that once championed sexual liberation now actually operates on children so they will never in their lives experience an orgasm.”
So a reader of his very popular substack responds:
“I sense you are beginning to take in the reality of what I previously wrote to you: there is a generation of future gays who have been turned into sexless Frankenstein’s monsters. I don’t use the description to shame them; I use to shame those who engineered their new bodies and their shrunken lives. Along the way we deal with teenagers being allowed to choose permanent sterility (whereas actual adults have difficulty gaining access to tubal ligation or vasectomy if they have no children), and the sinister approval of “eunuch gender” — a cultivated target population of legal-age people who retain pre-pubescent bodies. I mean, what could possibly go wrong with that?”
The eunuch reference is to the latest ‘professional standards’ produced by WPATH, followed slavishly by every organization you like to list as representing ‘the science’ yet you summarily dismiss every other source every time from all other countries that dare to disagree with it’s ‘informed’ recommendations by labelling all of it as right wing and fringe and hate-fueled. It’s not. The legitimate criticism is well founded scientifically and is ubiquitous outside of gender-based ‘allies’ because reality is revealing the growing harm being foisted on indoctrinated children with the blessing of many truly misguided people utterly intolerant of anyone and anything that impedes the wholesale acceptance and implementation in education of this incoherent gender-based harmful ideology.
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Hi Tildeb;
I would normally refrain from direct reply to another commenter, but I found you have made it so deeply under my skin that I can’t abide any longer. I speculate you likely celebrate that.
Nonetheless, I think it reasonable that I make some allowances; I believe there are people who truly are concerned for the welfare of all who go through this ordeal of gender clarification. I think it reasonable that folks find the issue confusing and frightening in scope and future. I also find it reasonable that folks will discuss their concerns, their fears for the safety of children caught up in this difficult time, and I find it reasonable for them to learn more about things.
What I find completely unreasonable and an incredible pompous arrogance is the presumption that others ought to have a voice in the difficult process these children, teens, young adults and their parents are traveling. These are not snap decisions, no matter what morons on faux news declare. These are struggles, guided by psychiatric and medical professionals who carry more pedigree than a social media account. To be true, I don’t understand what these people are going through either, just like they likely don’t understand what I deal with, or you deal with. It’s the mark of being human that we all have our own journey.
You have pounded this blog with paragraph upon paragraph of disingenuous intellectualizations and share a presumption with so many others that these kids and parents ought to be governed by ideology not their own and left stranded in their hell so that you may reside in your own comfort. You have no skin in the game, outside some odd fear of what may one day come upon some far flung slippery slope. Meanwhile such fearmongering has injured these families. Again, I’ve come to the uncomfortable belief that brings about celebrations for you.
I am sorry to the readers and commenters, but there is a time to draw a line, and that was truly a long time ago. We live in free countries where free citizens have free rights to find their own peace. How dare those who would stand there and deny others the right of transition, the right of becoming whole? And then to proclaim the words of pioneering gay rights advocates to support your bullshit! Where are the paragraphs and demonstrations for those who are not allowed life-saving care for “religious reasons”? Where are the diatribes when the powers abuse the common citizen? Where are the paragraphs and marching for those who live in abuse, poverty, who lack hope? Where are the paragraphs about how to help with food production, climate, war? Better yet, rather than impotently spouting a stack of words, how about doing something more than criticizing and tearing down and actually HELPING.
There are a lot of needs in our communities right now Tildeb – I think it time you shut up and go plant a tree or something.
randy
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I hope you feel better now, Randy.
Check out PITT for a non stop stream of various writers telling us about what this ideology has done to their families. It might be the start of an eye-opening situation for you, one you’re obviously oblivious to. You also check out Gays against Groomers. Or for legal ramifications Kara Dansky’s substack. Or psychologiost Valerie Terico. Or journalist Abigail Shrier. Or farmer Tara at Homestead Farms. There are lots of good sources across whatever other spectrum you care to use that have nothing to do with me or religion or politics or anything other than experiences of daring to question this ideology in action and what that costs and what this does. Detransvoices.org, Lisa Selin Davies, Eliza Mondegreen… the list goes on and on because this ideology is being practiced in our schools and is harming real children in real life whether Scottie believes it or not. If this is your child, it’s at least if not more important as any other problem you think I should spend my time writing about. I am trying to offer you and other readers here something more than the blank acceptance and a kind of religious certainty Scottie maintains about the righteousness of this indoctrination and the supposed net benefits.
Just as an aside, your stream of consciousness presumes I am against transitioning for those who have a lifetime history of sexual dysphoria or wish to interfere with their medical solutions. Neither is true in fact. And I have a history to back this up advocating for and preparing a rural highly conservative secondary school, the facilities, the students, the concerned parents, and the school community, for the inclusion of just such a transitioned student back in the 90s. It not only went seamlessly but produced zero intolerance. No one – not staff, not students, not parents – had any concerns whatsoever of having a transitioned student… one who went on to graduate with all the others. I played a main role in making this happen not because I’m a bigot or intolerant but because I care about the health, safety, and welfare of children in the public school system. It is under attack, Randy, and kids and their families are paying the long term price for this. Cheering it on I think is unhelpful.
I literally have nothing against those who have transitioned. What I am against is indoctrinating children into believing in gender ideology because there’s no such thing in reality. Gender is a feeling measured against how near or far these feelings may be from imaginary sexual stereotypes. That’s it. And these feelings can and almost always do change over time with maturation (about 85% of teens who question their ‘gender identity’ become quite comfortable with their own sexuality by age 19, including many gays and lesbians. This is a maturation process. And it’s a process intentionally being short circuited by public education and the medical community directed to do so and causing a vast amount of residual harm. That’s worth pointing out even if people don’t want to hear or read about it. You need to. That’s the only way this insanity is going to stop.
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No, Tildeb. Just. Plain. No.
You, like many of your little republican trolls, presume upon good folks polite natures and general respect for others while you do this little troll dance. I’ve personally had enough of you, and I’m calling you out as a troll and presuming you have no shame. So, NO.
You burned the boat, the barge and the damned bridge. NO.
You have no right to direct, demand, or whatever you are doing, on this topic. This is a serious issue families are dealing with, and you and your ilk pound your pulpits only to control and hurt others in words and deeds couched in “what about the children?” and your little fun time needs to end.
As I’ve said; I almost never respond directly, and even more rarely do I do so negatively. Shove your little tucker carlson-esque links and Troll on elsewhere.
Done and Done.
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Good for you. Stay strong in your faith. I would expect no less from a True Believer.
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Real medical science should have something to add… if such researchers weren’t immediately vilified as transphobes and bigots. Those who have braved these ideologically infested waters do have something to say and parents of ‘gender-questioning’ children should know why they should be the gatekeepers for these kids.
” In the Alzheimer’s Association International Conference (AAIC) of 2021, two studies reported that transgender adults report more subjective cognitive decline than cisgender adults and that depression and cognitive disability are higher among transgender and nonbinary adults. (The press release highlighting these two studies also mentioned that “it is known that transgender adults experience a greater number of health disparities considered risk factors for dementia – including higher cardiovascular disease, depression, diabetes, tobacco/alcohol use, and obesity.”) There is evidence of brain damage in mice cells. Research shows that testosterone therapy in transgender men can suppress ovulation and alter ovarian cell structure, while estrogen in transgender women can lead to reduced sperm production and testicular atrophy. Several studies have pointed to the increased risk of cardiovascular disease, blood clots, ischemic stroke (this is where the blood flow reduces to the brain, and its cells start dying within minutes), and heart attacks.
Among the patients in the Amsterdam cohort (in other words, from the center that started it all; also note the large size of the cohort and the length of time they were followed: 2927 transgender women and 1641 transgender men followed over five decades), “cause-specific mortality in transgender women was high for cardiovascular disease, lung cancer, HIV-related disease, and suicide”; “cause-specific death in transgender men was high for non-natural causes of death”; and “no decreasing trend in mortality risk was observed over the five decades studied.” Another study from Sweden that followed a sample of 324 sex-reassigned patients over 30 years found that such patients “have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behavior, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population.”
In this age of excessive information, it is easy to gloss over all these studies. Sometimes they look like words piled on top of other words. But even then, as one reads the list of increased risk factors in published clinical research – heart attacks, ischemic stroke, lung cancer, brain damage, and other yet-unknown changes to the brain – one cannot but realize: medical transition is not the safe panacea as we have been told.“
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Far be it for me to burst any bubbles of denialist belief about gender ideology being taught from K-12, but the lid really is starting to come off the indoctrination in schools that is occurring.
By all means also check out school teacher and whistleblower Paul Rossi’s shocking tape recordings from his Head Teacher… a pivotal start to the founding and membership explosion of pro-human non partisan FAIR (Foundation Against Intolerance and Racism).
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