From Reuters News:
‘Blasphemous’ same-sex nativity scene angers conservatives in Italy
A church nativity scene which features two mothers of the Baby Jesus, instead of the conventional Mary and Joseph figurines, has sparked anger among conservative Catholics and politicians in Italy.
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Best Wishes and Hugs,Scottie
Scottie's Playtime 
While I don’t support the “Christmas Story” at all, I do think this is going a bit too far. The manger scene is representing a story in the bible … long before “gender issues” was a topic of discussion. Is it possible that two women were watching over the baby? Sure. But in current times, the message is pretty obvious. And I, for one, think it was out-of-place.
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Hi Nan. Again we disagree. All stories get retold and upgraded to the times. How many nativity’s have you seen with all white figures? With animals that were not in the area at the time? They are pushing that religious story into the public square so the public is free to play with the story. If they kept it in their churches then they might have a say. Today in most places in the world families are more than just one man and one woman. Hell even in the biblical times it was not one man / one woman. The bible makes that clear. The man can have as many wives, concubines, sexual slaves, out of marriage sex as he wants. The restrictions were on the women because she was property. Hugs. Scottie
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Yes. On this issue, we have and will probably continue to disagree. You see this as a sign of the time. I feel it was “pushing the envelope” as related to a traditional biblical story. And I’m not even religious!
Also, I tend to disagree with your statement that “ALL” stories are retold and “upgraded” to the times. Many are, yes, but not all — especially not biblical stories (although some of them NEED to be!).
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Hi Nan. Even the biblical stories are retold, as I explained about some. Clearly you have not seen the attempts by progressive leaning churches to be more inclusive, nor do you seem to credit the scholarly research in the texts as to what they really meant in the original.
But I understand. You are holding on to the traditional way of thought of your past, you have reached a point where you are no longer able to bend or stretch to the modern understandings or acceptance. It is normal. Everyone reaches that point at different times in their lives, at different ages. You have been very mentally active and were able to adjust to a lot of changes with no problem. Look back at the changes in society in your long life that you took in stride with no problem. And these subjects about gender or sex takes it beyond your comfort zone. That doesn’t stop the modern interpretation from being correct, it is just that you can not grow to accept it as you have done with so many other topics in your life.
I will point out to you the priest who did this was the local religious authority and he approved of his action. To date I have not read of any backlash from the Vatican or the Pope. Hugs. Scottie
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Scottie, PLEASE do not make assumptions about me. Although we have gotten to know each other fairly well through emails and blogs, we are not in close, constant, or personal contact so we can only presume to know what the other person is thinking.
Moreover, I have a RIGHT to disagree with anything you or anyone else thinks, says, or believes. And YOU have the same right. However, you do not have is the right to make verbal statements about how I view life.
One more thing … this “sex thing” as you call it is most definitely not one of my major concerns in life so you can be assured that there is no “comfort zone” involved.
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Hi Nan. I go by what you write. You have a more tradition view of gender and how things should be expressed in public, in schools, and in society. I pointed that out, and explained it happens. That is normal as a society progresses or moves to new things being introduced in society. Some people embrace the new ideas and changes, and some prefer to hang on to the traditional way things were. That you have an issue with your own stance or how it is seen by others is not something to blame on me.
Nan, I do have have is the right to make verbal statements about how I view life when you openly proclaim how you feel about a subject, especially in response to a post that is directly about how people feel or view an issue. You should expect a reply commenting on what you wrote.
Nan, clearly the issues of trans kids and trans people are outside your comfort zone. You have stated your disagreement with modern medical practices of treating kids with affirmative gender care, you have written about your discomfort with sharing a bathroom with trans women, and you have disagreed with the science of trans people in sports. You clearly think changing stories to be more inclusive of the modern age is wrong as you said in the comment on the post. These are things you have publicly shown you are not comfortable with. Hence out of your comfort zone. Hugs. Scottie
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I do not deny that there are topics out of my comfort zone … as is the case with most everyone. What I resent is your psychoanalysis of who I am and WHY I have reservations about certain topics.
I do understand and accept that you have had to face society’s disfavor of your own gender/sexual issues and this has made you intimately aware of what transgender people are dealing with. And your efforts to bring the issue more into the public arena is certainly understandable. I don’t fault you for any of that.
But to criticize and fault me for not believing the same as you simply because I’m a from a different generation is extremely offensive to me. I don’t really care to see people openly having sex on the sidewalks of a large city either. Does that make me Victorian?
Let it go, Scottie. Thanks.
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Hi Nan. Your offense is your problem. You need to let it go! Go back and reread the first reply to you I made. I stated the situation in pretty neutral terms. You are creating an issue where none existed. It is a fact that older people have more trouble adjusting to changes in society. All polling points this out. You are an older person. As I said, you have seen a lot of social changes and adjusted to them, but you seem to be struggling with the newest ones.
The fact is by what you have written, your attitudes are more aligned with the social public morals of past decades. If you have an issue with your own stance on modern society, you need to deal with it. I have made my observations based on your own written words, how you have described your feelings. I don’t write your words.
You wrote, I feel it was “pushing the envelope” as related to a traditional biblical story. That means you had discomfort with it. It was beyond your comfort zone. That is what pushing the envelope means.
You ignored all the example I provided to show how every story is reimagined including the biblical ones. You want more, look at the out cry when The Little Mermaid was redone with a black mermaid. Instead, you chose to focus on a perceived grievance that was backed up by data. It is a fact that as people get older changes are harder to accept. There is not an accusation there, other than I guess you are getting older. But again that is a fact we should be glad of.
So Nan. We can continue with something I think is in your mind and your feelings of how you are dealing with the modern society, or we can let it drop. Up to you really. Hugs. Scottie
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What difference would it make if Mary had a helper to take care of her new baby, especially when the father didn’t show up at all to help, just the poor dope who got conned into covering for her so she wouldn’t be stoned by the o so holey people.
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Exactly! And we get that here; in Italy, I read that it’s illegal to have children via surrogacy, as an example. But what the priest said is true: there are all sorts of families; we should all just hold the families we have closely, and welcome all.
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Hi Muttpupdad. I agree. See what I replied to Nan. They push that story into the public square so the public gets to play with it. Hell as I told Nan they don’t even keep to the way the story is as the characters in the US and other white majority countries are white. Plus they have animals in some of them that were never in that area and no one complains. It is just an excuse to attack LGBTQIA people. Hugs. Scottie
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This priest has done what Jesus would do. Also, he’s very brave to do what Jesus would do. There is nothing wrong with being hospitable.
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Hi Ali. Yes you and the priest get the spirit of the season. Thank you. Please see what I replied to Nan and Muttpupdad. Thanks Hugs. Scottie
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Queer Theory is meant to erase sex-based boundaries, to dismantle cultural norms and expectations, to deconstruct sex as a category/identity and replace it with ‘gender’ affirming language and unfettered permission for gender ideology to run amok. Truth plays no part.
So it’s very, very handy to have people – especially from cultural or professional or traditional institutions – do this job FOR Queer Theory activists! And what could be more traditional than a nativity scene altered BY A PRIEST to do exactly this?
Sweet.
Naturally, anyone who reasonably questions the message being sent justifying the alteration/deconstruction will immediately be cast as some kind of bigot, some kind of dinosaur, some kind of moral impediment to some imaginary but ‘moral imperative’ necessary for the kind very specific social change that supposedly aims at achieving a later utopia… but only produces the means to tear down every cultural inheritance we have achieved – from the political to the judicial to educational to the traditional – and replace it with never-ending activism. Nothing is ever enough, you see. So it isn’t surprising that supporting never-ending destructive activism is what ‘good’ people do, you see, versus those ‘bad’ people who dare to question, dare to criticize, dare to respect what’s true more than the ideologically driven activism to tear it all down.
It takes faith of the religious kind to go along with and unfailingly support Queer activism in all its guises and feel virtuous doing so. It takes a True Believer (TM).
Consider: Has anyone here ever read a single criticism by Scottie about this never-ending activism and what it produces? No? Neither have I. That kind of exhibited certainty cannot be found in anyone presenting some scientific justification (likelihood and probability and confidence is the language of science); this kind certainty only exists in the minds of those who already know they possess The Truth (TM)… which, when you think about it, defines not science based thinking whatsoever but faith-based belief in action… to a T. And so respecting why anger about an altered nativity scene might be justified for being used/abused to promote Queer Theory is treated by Queer activists like our host (irony alert) as blasphemy!
Don’t believe me? Read it for yourself: just look at how he paints Nan’s questioning comments, excusing them not on merit but only because of age and an unwillingness for the commentator to socially and therefore morally ‘adjust’!
See? Truth simply doesn’t matter. The beliefs and opinions of others don’t matter. Criticism doesn’t matter. What matters is ‘correct’ ideology and unconditional support for it is everything.
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Hi Tildeb. Nice essay, but as normal for you, quite wrong in the premise. What you call activism is just people wanting to live openly as who they are with equality to cis straight people. Those you call activists are just people wanting to make society less discriminatory. So to you the society should be restricted to straight cis 1950s gender roles and public standards?
There is a meme that states “no, we can not agree to disagree when you are trying to take away my rights”!
You wrote … tear down every cultural inheritance we have achieved … Which assumes two things, one that society has reached the highest peak of development and ignores that the society you claim is so great was built by moving more progressive every generation. That society was created by changing tradition, changing what was done in the past to create a new way based on new understandings. Society is a living thing, it can grow and expand or regress into oppression of the people.
You know who else champions tradition and never changing how things are done. Fundamentalist religions leaders., Afghanistan Taliban, and the Iranian moral police. Also people who are very comfortable with the status quo because they have all the rights and authorities. Whites in the Confederacy were happy with the tradition of slavery. White men were happy with dependent wives, and the Christian churches were very happy with the status of being the semi-state religion.
It is the people being discriminated against and wanting equality, wanting to be able to enjoy the freedoms in life as others do that want tradition to change. As I already knew and your screed about shows you are OK with discriminating against others.
Let me address your opinion on medical certainty. You’re wrong as usually and promote your opinion as fact. I have very clearly posted articles from medical professionals that state the fact unequivocally that sex and gender are both on a spectrum, that gender-affirming care is the correct and best way to treat trans children, and that it is a fact that being LGBTQIA is something we are born as and immutable. That includes trans kids. They know what / who they are, they were born with the wrong parts, and the proper care is to provide gender-affirming care. That is truth. Tildeb wants things to stay the same so they need to lie, push distortions, and create myths that never happened.
Yes please everyone read what Nan wrote and what I replied. The progression of society has reached a point she feels uncomfortable with aspects of it. It is normal, it is a documented phenomenon that people reach a point where changes make them uncomfortable or they dislike. They can not stretch or change enough to feel like it is a good thing to change. I would say Tildeb reached that point some time ago. Why do you think there has always been tension and friction between young generations and the older ones? History itself proves what I wrote. Younger people accept change easier than some older people. Hugs. Scottie
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