What If This God Thing Is All A Lie?

Unknown's avatar

Published by Scotties Playtime

I am an older gay guy in a long-term wonderful relationship. My spouse and I are in our 36th year together. I love politics and news. I enjoy civil discussions and have no taboo subjects. My pronouns are he / him / his and my email is Scottiestoybox@gmail.com

12 thoughts on “What If This God Thing Is All A Lie?”

    1. Hi Roger. I would love to hear your difference. What I hear him saying is that while he believes in god, behaving in a good decent life like god existed even if he did not is a positive. You lived a good life, helping others, following the love that Jesus preached which is a plus for the community even if Jesus is not real. I wish Christianity had been based around what Jesus is said to have been for instead of what Paul was for. The preaching, the words of Jesus I try to do in my daily life. The OT and the religion crafted by Paul I detest. Hugs. Your friend. Scottie

      Liked by 1 person

      Reply

      1. As we used to write in the ‘old school’ UK Civil Service when responding to another office ‘Will reply i.d.c. (in due course)’. It’s 7:45 pm BST and we’re on our daily wind-down for supper and a DVD, before navigating off to bed (or maybe Sheila to read in bed and me to watch, in the other bedroom, a Netflix Super-Hero tv series).

        I’ll get back to you with my reply tomorrow morning about 8am BST, which I guess will be 3am- 4am where you are – so it will be there when you get up 😀.

        Take care guys
        Roger & Sheila

        Liked by 1 person

        Reply

      2. Hi Scottie
        Finally getting there at 8.23am BST 15th August.
        I just have this one basic difference at the start.
        ‘What If This God Thing Is All A Lie?’
        My response is ‘Wrong Question’.

        I’ll spare you one of my over-long discourses through the History of Theistic Belief and thus why ‘Lie’ is a wrong word and cut down to basics.
        Believe, Don’t Believe or Doubt Existence Of. So what? Just so long as you strive for Compassion, Respect and Tolerance.

        Y’see the problem Humanity is going to have, is that in this 14+ billion year old, 93 billion light year observable Universe, with a debateable number dimensions (that bit truly is a tough one), no one is going to be able to say:
        ‘Look. There’s God. Sitting Over There. Proves I’m right. Yeah?’
        Or.
        ‘Now the calculations irrefutably state that God should be…here. But there is no sign of God, so God does not exist,’
        Therefore I maintain that whereas the question might occupy the minds of many folk on all sides of the debate aside from personal choice- it simply does not matter. All that is left are the opportunities to exchange views in a civilised manner as to why one person holds to one point or the other. (Now this will get me into trouble with a lot of folk from all sides…)

        The danger, of course as we have discussed before is taking selective bits out of ‘evidence’ and holding tight to those like they were the only important aspects in something which is way bigger than two or three snippets.
        Paul is actually a good example of that.

        As we know it has been the intention of many male dominated societies to reduce women to the role of childbearing and homecaring chattels. And do not many of misogynist alleged Christian run to one sentence here and one sentence there about women being submissive…While ignoring, say this awkward missive from Paul:
        Romans 16:
        “I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church at Cenchreae, 2so that you may welcome her in the Lord as is fitting for the saints and help her in whatever she may require from you, for she has been a benefactor of many and of myself as well. 3Greet Prisca and Aquila, who work with me in Christ Jesus, 4and who risked their necks for my life, to whom not only I give thanks,”
        You could fill a small library with books discussing Paul from all directions, and in doing so learn a bit about the original words used, their context in the time and the possible translation.
        There again someone can chose my slightly heretical view and when it comes to his letters suggesting Man is the head (whatever that means) of the household and Woman should be submissive. ‘OK Paul. If you said it. Don’t care. I’m not buying into that. You got it wrong, it doesn’t square with some of the other things you said’.
        (That’s before we get around to the thorny question that some scholars assert there were ‘letters’ supposed to be written by Paul but were not.)

        On the whole. Who can prove what? It comes down to personal belief or something close.
        Compassion, Respect and Tolerance. Those are the fundamental rock solid goals. How we get there and how others get there, not as important.

        OK, I’m done.

        Take care you Guys,
        Roger

        Liked by 1 person

        Reply

        1. Hi Roger. I love you speaking your mind. I think we were meaning the same thing, but not using the same words.

          Believe, Don’t Believe or Doubt Existence Of. So what? Just so long as you strive for Compassion, Respect and Tolerance. That is what I was saying with … behaving in a good decent life like god existed even if he did not is a positive. 

          I do not believe in your god, and I really wish I could. But 17 years of emotional, physical, and sexual abuse drove that from me. Plus being raped by three different people as a young adult, one multiple times. And in the year I was in a church boarding school I know some of my friends also were abuse survivors. We all asked the same question. Where was god when … and did he enjoy watching.

          That said and in a way I wish I had not written the above paragraph and may still delete it. The point of the video in my view and it is one I live by, is the very same thing you said at the start of your reply. Believe, Don’t Believe or Doubt Existence Of. So what? Just so long as you strive for Compassion, Respect and Tolerance. In my life I have strived to follow my personal code of conduct and forgiveness towards others. Only now in later years do I realize I am living the ideals of the Jesus that I heard about but never learned about.

          Being a caring, kind, considerate person towards others, helping other people when you can. Giving of your self to those in need. In so many other ways I have followed the very Jesus that many preachers in the US says condemn me to a horrific death. That is why the message Rev Trevors puts in this video means so much to me is even if Jesus is not real, if the god he worships is not real, being a good decent person is still is a wonderful worthwhile way to life and a grand way to be.

          On the whole. Who can prove what? It comes down to personal belief or something close. Roger I ask does it need to be proven for believers to follow the precepts of that person to live good and decent lives following Compassion, Respect and Tolerance.  I follow them and I do not need a god to be proven to make me live that way.

          Those are the fundamental rock solid goals. How we get there and how others get there, not as important. Unless I totally misunderstood, I thought that is what the video was saying and what Reverend Trevors was getting to. If I was wrong I will take the video down and thank you for correcting me. I just thought he was saying that people like me who do not believe or follow the Christian religion but who live decent lives also have a place in the realm of your god if it is real and if it is not what is the harm of living such a life that way? If the video upsets you I will remove it, I care more about you and your feelings than a single post that I might have misunderstood. With love, peace, good intent, and caring for you along with others. Hugs. Scottie

          Liked by 1 person

          Reply

          1. Hi Scottie.
            Good response Scottie. Takes courage to be open about your past. I respect that.
            A busy Friday beckons for me. I’m hoping to reply in detail sometime about 5pm-7pm UK BST, which I guess will be early to mid-afternoon for yourself.
            Take care.
            Roger

            Liked by 1 person

            Reply

          2. Hi Scottie..I’m back

            We are three people with three differing notions on whether there is a God or not, however we all hold to the idea that Compassion, Respect and Tolerance is the deal we should strive for. Therefore I see no advantage in arguing over how we get there. ‘Respect’ is accepting that folk are going to have different ways of getting to the same target. That may get me into trouble with some ‘fellow believers’. My response will sound heretical even blasphemous to some – ‘I’ll be open with God. That’s all that matters,’

            And no one who claims to be a true believer gets to tell anyone that they are going to go to Hell. They think they know what is in God’s mind….Ha!….That is dangerously close to arrogance. I know, us believers all fall for it…The number of times I’ve said ‘Rot in Hell!’ about some perpetrator of an horrific crime….and then Sheila has told me off for saying such stuff…and then she will say at a later stage about something horrible ‘God forgive me, but……’
            But folk who simply live a different Life in mutual Love, telling them they are going to Hell….That is hoo-hah (I’m being very, very restrained there Scottie)
            Whatever lies beyond this mortal Life… Well that’s for us to find ‘on the other side’.
            (There’s theological question which centres around God’s Forgiveness and Redemption in which the challenge is ‘You get to Heaven, and there’s Hitler????’ – an answer to that one takes a paragraph or six).

            The ‘Why God Why?’ question is one which should challenge every Christian, and you’d not be surprised to learn there are books and books about that one. Sheila has a favourite outburst which is looking up to the ceiling and with hands open saying ‘Aww. Come on Boss. Why? ‘. And we both get angry when reading horrific news ‘C’mon now God. Where were you?’.
            There are theological responses such as ‘God is there with those suffering. Sharing the pain’, followed by ‘We have free will and we chose a good way or a bad way. The whole thing can get very tangled. One answer I get angry with ‘God has a plan. It’s all part of the plan,’…my response ‘What? A child being raped, is part of a plan? Don’t sell me that. I’m not buying!!!’
            If we are honest, truly honest all we can say ‘I don’t know. I just don’t know,’ That said I do hold to the Free Will idea, and we as a species, society, whatever Have to work harder.
            Some answer huh?

            No the video does not upset me at all Scottie. Listening to it, I can thinking in duality say
            ‘Well that’s a point of view that’s interesting’
            then
            ‘I don’t agree though with the detail’
            Then
            ‘So how don’t I agree? Work it through. Will it matter if I don’t agree? No,’

            Thus we try and strive on Scottie. Imperfect world. Wishing it was better. Trying and keeping on. Never giving up.

            This I know you have been heroic.
            Take care you and Ron.
            Roger

            Liked by 1 person

            Reply

            1. Hi Roger. That was a wonderful beautifully written reply. If I may, can I add a few thoughts not based on specific theology but more on personal views?

              When I was about 16 just starting to attend the SDA church, after having a horrible day at home and then school I told the bus driver who was also in the church who was not listening to me and was upsetting me to “Go to hell” as I turned and ran off the bus instead of letting him take me home. He then a few months later told me how shook and hurt he was by my saying that. At the time it was common in my home to yell that at others, so I did not understand why he was so upset. Now as I am older, calmer, and less upset / angry I can understand why saying that to a real believer could be so upsetting. Also I realize now they while they might have suspected some but they had no way to know how bad I was being treated / abused. I regret what I did / said to him as a teen because it hurt him greatly. I take the idea of do no harm and treat others as you would want to be treated as real goals.

              As to if I die and there is this god I did not believe in, if he is everything the followers of Jesus told me he stood for, I will be happy to have my life judged by him. His true followers say actions mean more than words, his true followers say he died to cover us all, including all sinners and that includes gay people. And if after living my life as a decent caring compassionate helping person he finds me lacking for the way I was born, I have to say I don’t want to spend eternity with that person anyway. After all the Christians that would condemn me for that also claim he creates each person as he wants them to be.

              So he created me gay with emotional and sexual attraction to my same sex / gender. He made me homosexual just to condemn me? And to those who say it is a lifestyle choice ask any teen in a rural red state or religious family how often they prayed and prayed and then prayed harder for god to take it away and make them straight, make them want the other sex. I know I did. It is like the sin of masturbation, every religious teen boy (and maybe girl also) prays not to do it, but their body drives them to do it. Again the boys (maybe girls) feel guilty because clearly they did not believe hard enough in god or he would have stepped in and helped them not do it.

              Lastly Roger. I value your input along with respecting your feelings. Please feel free to vent and not restrict yourself here if you want to let loose. This is a space I control and I give you license to say here what you feel you shouldn’t in other places. As you wrote, “Thus we try and strive on Scottie. Imperfect world. Wishing it was better. Trying and keeping on“. I am imperfect. I have a lot of things I need to work on to be a better person. My own motto is to be a better person today than I was yesterday. But to become better we also have to have a space to fully express our thoughts to help us do that goal. I give this space here for you if you wish. I know you have your own blog, but the same issues are not discussed there as are here.

              The people who raised me wanted to break me to their will, but all they did was fracture my mind and emotions as they did to my bones. While they also broke some of my bones they never broke me. I learned to put the pieces back together and I am still working on it. But to do that I needed a place and space to do it and to speak freely. I offer that to you also here. If in a comment or reply you wish to say more than your filters / decency says you should, if you wish to then I give you permission. I am a tolerant person and I trust you.

              Thank you and your wonderful wife for being in my life, you have helped me be a better person. Best wishes. Hugs. Scottie

              Liked by 1 person

              Reply

              1. It is a fact,- we all ‘fly off the handle’ and say things we wish we had not, and they seem to hang around in our memories. The important thing is to think ‘Well, that could have gone better’ then not beat yourself up, but try and learn to avoid the same thing happening next time…Easier said than done, of course. I guess that’s the way we are wired.

                Aside from in courts of law, we don’t get to judge folk. Least of all Christians:
                I quote:
                Matthew 7:1-3
                King James Version
                1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

                2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

                3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

                Nope- If two folk of the same sex live in a loving equal relationship, then no one, but no gets to judge them.
                Folk can quote this and that (which will usually come out of the Old Testament) and I really do not care what they think…Basically, they’ve got it wrong. They are reading and worse interpretating all wrong, just to suit their own narrow perspective.

                Got another quote for them…right out of their usual go to The Old Testament:

                “Isaiah 55:8-9
                King James Version
                8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

                9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.”
                So they go and argue that with God, and see where it gets them.

                OK with my science / religious hat on
                God did not put in place a biological system in which folk are gay, just so that He can wave a celestial finger at them. To use an old American folk saying ‘That hound don’t hunt’.
                Basically there is a great deal We do not know about the fundamentals of sexual orientation / development. To keep it simple as long as it is not abusive, harmful, forced upon another or exploits children; then that is simply the Way of The World, as it were. Let it be folks, let it be.

                I thank you for the freedom to express myself on your blog Scottie. I do try and have some restraint in my anger. To use a part of a quote from Confederate general Robert E Lee and paraphrase it ‘Lest I grow too fond of it’.
                And yes, we should always try to improve the next day.

                You have done well to reach where you are, how you are, as you are. When set against the backdrop of your life, this speaks volumes for your character. Keep on striving to hold, true the Compassion, Respect and Tolerance.

                And thanks so much for your closing words. They mean so much to us.

                Take care, Take great care.
                Roger & Sheila

                Liked by 1 person

                Reply

  2. Hi Roger. At the risk of wearing out my welcome, I saved this reply of yours to comment on because I really loved it. You wrote “The important thing is to think ‘Well, that could have gone better’ then not beat yourself up, but try and learn to avoid the same thing happening next time“. I have for a long time done that. I hate to cause others pain. I caused this man pain even though he had no idea as far as I know of what my life was like. I was angry and lashed out, and that is just as wrong for me as it was for my abusers to do to me. I would love to go through life never hurting others. I hate the idea that my actions or words would harm others as the actions / words of my abusers hurt me.

    This man was a true believer, he served in Vietnam as a medic and refused to carry a gun. But he went into the worst areas and situations to help the wounded. He lived his faith. I feel I had no right to hurt him that way. I feel I hurt him in a way I can’t take back or make up. I never want to do that to anyone again. I have learned to really care about people. Like you said I learned from it. So now I try hard to temper my own pain and hurt, to watch what I might say to others. But if your god is real which I do not dispute with you, instead honoring your right / choice to believe, he will surely hold my hurting one of his followers against me, as I do myself. Hugs. Scottie

    Like

    Reply

Leave a comment

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.