This video means a lot to me. It explains how I felt and changed. People ask how I could care for my adopting parents and abusers at the end of their lives with all they had done to and caused to be done to me. As he says, I did not want to be them, I did not want to be like them, I did not want to replace them with myself. I am not a religious person, and I have seen no sign of higher beings, but I agree it wouldn’t be bad to be like the Jesus he talks about and the way he treated others. The question I never answered is did I forgive them? Hugs
Why should I be charitable to people that hurt me?
Scottie's Playtime 
Powerful question Scottie with powerful answers from Rev. Ed Trevors
Not with the weight of memories you carry. but I have my own internal conflicts on a social-political level and keeping making the errors he warns about.
Did you ever forgive them?
Now there is a difficult question for anyone to answer. You cared for those who did you harm…now that is a heck of a lot more than many of us could do.
So unconditional caring? I reckon that is a form of forgiveness.
Take care and
How are you and Ron?
Roger and Sheila.
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Thank you Roger. I have posted on the Male Survivor site about what I did for them both at the end of their life. A few understood but most tell me they couldn’t have done it. Their hate and anger run too deep and hot. One survivor is the last male of his family and a survivor of his father’s need to force the boy to let him do oral sex on him, and he is terrified of having to provide the personal genital care I did.
Roger it is hard to explain to fellow survivors I did not do this for them, I never worked so hard to change, to reduce the rage / anger I held in me for my abusers, I can’t seem to explain to them on the site why I had to do this change.
See my anger, my rage at my own hurt, my bitterness over my childhood. Not just the mistreatment, not just the denial of food, but Roger I had been in the military for 5 years and seen all the opportunities other people had. The boyfriend I had in Berlin wanted me to go through the FCA course with him to be able to run the transition hardware of radio stations it was an easy course for other, he was so angry at me. Until I broke down and explained to him I simply did not have the education of a high schooler to do the course. There were too many gaps, too many times I had been out of school. It was only by my own trying to learn that I managed to get into the satellite field. So he took it on himself to try to teach me the basics of the math I had never been taught. After a few frustrating sessions he finally understood how stunted my education was and hugged me saying it was OK for me to drop out of the class. I am not sure if he dropped the class to show me he agreed and cared or he lost interest.
The point is my anger all my life is not the memories of beatings to see me cry or pee myself. It is not the other tortures done to me … it is the life I could have had. I have often been amazed at your knowledge and understanding of history, things I never got to learn as a kid. I so want the life Scottie could have had in a normal family who encouraged school and socialization with other kids who had their clothes on.
But Roger that bile in every part of me against them was interfering with my relation with Ron. A few months after moving in with me I saw what a real caring human could be and I wanted to be that. I wanted to be normal like he was. That meant the anger / hate / thoughts of revenge / had to go away. It did not happen overnight it took years. Long after Ron moved us 1,500 miles from my abusers I struggled with angry outbursts. I never wanted Ron to feel the fear of an angry family member that I had so I made damn sure I never took it on him, even though he kept telling me I was shouting sometimes when we disagreed.
Roger I needed to change to save me. Not them. I do not know or really care what has happened to them after they left the mortal plane, I did what I needed to help me not them. It sounds so selfish when I put it that way. They were dying and I cared for them … but I did it for me not them. Does that make me wrong or bad? Now I wonder?
I saw their relationship with each other and their kids they had. Fear, anger, open threats of violence, I was forced to watch my adopting father rape my adopting mother because he wanted sex from her instead of me and she did not want to. So much anger, hate, fear, bitterness in their lives as each tried to get more from the others, tried to get over the others, to be top dog. That is not for me, not the me I want to be.
So I changed. I never wanted Ron to feel such from me what was felt in that house. I wanted to be … the opposite, to be … loving as best I understood how.
So yes at the end I am not sure I forgave them. When my adopting father lay in the bed after I had helped him with urinating touching the same organ he had abused me with in so many ways including drinking his urine and carefully cleaning / wiping the same anus I had been made to put my mouth and tongue to …. no I did not forgive them. Instead I gave myself a new life. I forgave my angers, my hate, my need for revenge. I tried to make peace with my childhood in hopes it would stop torturing me.
Sadly I did have one last slip up. That day after doing all that as he glared hatefully at me I said. “I will never forget”. He tried to spit on me and weakly raised one of his rough hard hands I had feared so in childhood but he only could raise it a few inches or so. I think I saw something in his face. Maybe I imagined it but I want to believe it was recognition he was in the same place I had been as a little boy.
The next day I went to care for him he no longer knew who I was, as he died I think his memories did also. He had gotten to the point where he was sure his wife of all those years was trying to poison him.
Thank you Roger for giving me the grace to say I forgave them. I am not so sure but I hope so, again not for them but for the burden they placed on me as a 3 year old and I have had to carry all my life. Hugs
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Hi Scottie.
Thank you being so frank and open. I will be replying in more detail tomorrow about 8.30 am BST which will be early hours of the morning, but should be there sometime tomorrow.
Best wishes
Roger
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Hi Scottie
I would start off first by saying that people come in various types and make it even more complex by sometimes not be completely bad or completely good, being clever or wise in one part and not very bright or not very wise in others AND being one way and one time in Life and another at another part. You take a whole load of contradictions, and you have a person. There are the extremes some are just reprehensible. Life being an unfair system it was tragic for you were placed by a flawed system into a totally dysfunctional family.
Now this has been the reason or excuse given for the reprehensible acts carried out by some. ‘It was their upbringing. Not their fault,’ Yet here you are. You found Ron and you had the inner wisdom to choose his better nature as a way of viewing and dealing with things. Of course nothing is easy, but you did not let the vile past dominant you or dictate who you are. And that has to count for a great deal. That you survived and you came through speaks volumes about you.
We, people, work with what we have. Sometimes for better and sometimes for worse. We all have the capacity at times for being very hard creatures and doing unsettling things, while rationalising those acts. We also have the capacity for being worse as a life choice. Then we have the capacity for fighting against those urges or putting them to one side for healthier ways. It gets even more complicated when dealing with the shades of grey that Life puts us in.
The important factors are to embrace Respect, Compassion and Tolerance, those are difficult to maintain at all times. There is a default position:
Do the best you can, as you can, when you can, how you can.
Nothing is ever done perfectly though Scottie. You have survived and shown yourself to be a better person by rising above your past.
The thing about Life is that the challenges never end. There are always, for all of us, tough patches. Our tough patches. We keep on as best with what we have. And you are doing that.
Our best wishes
Roger & Sheila
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Forgiveness means different things to different people. For me, I forgive as soon as I can, because I recognize that for me, it’s no good to carry something around that someone else did. They’ll have to deal with that themselves, which has a satisfaction in it, for me and may mean I need to work on forgiveness a bit more. Many times, I stay away-sometimes far away- from someone who’s done something to me. Others may say that means I haven’t forgiven, but they don’t know what’s in my heart and mind, and for me, all I’m doing is preventing the wrong from repeating. I would still help them out if I could if they needed help I can provide.
You do you. It’s good to see you here!
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Hi Ali. Thank you for sharing on this. I understand you were also abused. It is a hard burden to carry. If at some point you feel up to reading it I poured my heart out to Roger in my reply above.
I think you are correct that forgiveness means different things to different people. I always thought forgiveness meant I no longer remembered or felt the effects of that thing I was forgiving. But I have never been able to bring myself to that point and I don’t think that is what forgiveness is anymore.
Ali I am not sure what forgiveness means.
You say the abusers, They’ll have to deal with that themselves, But Ali what about abusers that don’t feel any remorse over what they did. What about they justify it. One of the hell spawn who as a teen male who did so much abuse to me, who during the death of his last parent called me to see if I would help him get a better part of the estate. He started out the call with saying I know you were abused by hell spawn sister’s husband and if you work with me we can take part of her share. I reminded him that he was one of my main abusers coming to my mat in the hallway and … well it was some form of sexual favors or just to urinate on me knowing I would be punished in front of all of them in the morning. He paused and then said “well you can’t hold that against me I drank a lot as a teenager” In my case the abusers don’t mind what they did to me.
Ali let no one tell you that not being around those that hurt you is not forgiving. I feel it is because you are not letting the hurt they did you be revisiting over again on you while they stand near you mocking what you went through. When Ron first moved in with me he tried to force me into family gatherings as his family was close knit and he wanted to join mine thinking they were the same way. Once he saw the real way my family was he talked me into moving 1,500 miles away from them. He did everything he could to protect me from them.
“Others may say that means I haven’t forgiven, but they don’t know what’s in my heart and mind, and for me,” Ali you are so correct on this. Not one person can say what you feel and what you think. I know my abusers tried hard to convince me it was my fault or that I deserved it which I understand is normal for abusers.
“All I’m doing is preventing the wrong from repeating“. Amen / Awoman. I worried so much that I would repeat the kind of family life violence I saw growing up that it was hurting me because of all the media about abused kids becoming abusers. That is not true by the way, most abused people do not become abusers as you and I are proof of. For me it was looking at young Ron’s happy smiling face and I just couldn’t imagine / dreaded me being toward him as I watched the people I grew up with interacting with each other. I vowed I wouldn’t ever do that to him or live that kind of life with him.
At first Ron felt I was holding back or hiding something from him. I wouldn’t argue and would shut down on a disagreement but after meeting and being around those who raised me he worked from the other side of the coin, he worked to make me feel it was ok to argue and disagree.
“I would still help them out if I could if they needed help I can provide”. Ali this shows your growth, your real person. It is what I did. But it doesn’t show any growth on their self. Ali I can see you would be able to do this wonderful thing because of the person you are in your time here on the Play Time. You are a wonderful strong person who is full of love for your fellow humans along with the furry creatures who enter our lives and you have risen above the abuse you suffered. Yes from what you have shared with me and us on the site you are one of the few humans who do not seek retribution or revenge, just wanting the best life for all. I am so glad you came here and I am filled with joy at what you contribute here. The things you share are so grand, it makes me sad I miss so many of them. They are grand posts. Hugs
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