DeSantis Vows To Prioritize Hiring Enlisted Military Vets As Teachers Over People With “Shoehorn U” Ed Degrees

This is another attempt to ruin public education and to instead indoctrinate kids / students with “American Exceptionalism” and conservative right wing views.   There is a reason teaching is a profession, it has professional ethics and standards.   This is why parents should not be setting curriculums and alternate history.    This is why a lot of religious schools are unaccredited, they do not teach legitimate subject material that is required for a child to move to higher education, and to pass basic education tests.  This is part of DeathSantis attack on schools and education, this is part of the don’t say gay and no CRT/ teaching accurate history including no sexual education while insisting teachers teach that the US was founded to be a Christian nation.  If you think this is just a Florida problem remember DeathSantis is the front runner now for the republican nomination for president in 2024, and has raised hundreds of millions of dollars far out fund raising any other republican candidate.   He is what the right wing wants for their king.    Hugs

Florida Politics reports:

Gov. Ron DeSantis is vowing to “keep plowing forward” with plans to allow military veterans to teach in Florida classrooms, suggesting Wednesday that vets may be better suited to teaching than an education major.

“You give me somebody who has four years of experience as a Devil Dog over somebody who has four years of experience at Shoehorn U and I will take the Marine every day of the week and twice on Sunday,” DeSantis said during a press conference in Brevard County.

DeSantis made the comments defending a Senate bill last year that allowed for an alternative pathway to teaching certification for military veterans.

Read the full article.

Dwight Williamson • 2 minutes ago

Just another huge block of voters, teachers, he is turning further against himself. They say if gays are five per cent of the population in Florida and they turn out , they can decide the election against Ron. Let’s all take him down

russian warship go fucck yrslf • 4 minutes ago

The Yale history grad who taught at a prep school in Georgia has thoughts on degrees
Neat

David Brian Holt • an hour ago

Keep in mind that Ron Desantis graduated from both Harvard Law and Yale. His children certainly won’t be taught by ill-equipped veterans rather than qualified school teachers.

BradCav • an hour ago

This asshole went to Harvard. He knows active duty military can’t and shouldn’t teach Algebra or “Where The Red Fern Grows.” The point is to break public teachers unions and bleed public school money into the private sector. His “golly-shucks” populism is as cynical as the greed behind it is evil. He must really think his supporters are idiots. Or, at least, he’s counting on it.

Gay Fordham Prep Grad BradCav • an hour ago • edited

…and Yale undergrad. He’s not stupid, notice how of all the red meat GQP issues, the one he won’t go near is abortion restrictions,? Last night in KS showed why. I hope he challenges the the biggest loser in the primaries. In the worst case scenario I suppose he’d be better than the orange malignancy, he does not inspire the cult the way Jim Jones Trump does.

Jack Frost David Brian Holt • an hour ago

Correct, he’s playing the same game all the Republicans do and just like them, not a single person calls him out on this shit.

No FL Dems goes online to point this fact out, hell not even a Biden admin Dept of Ed mentions it, he’s just spewing the same GOP talking points, uncorrected.

Kelly Lape • 6 minutes ago

A good campaign policy, a horrible policy to implement. Of all the movies I’ve watched over the decades that have attempted to predict the future, I believe Idiocracy is the most likely to have nailed it.

Bob’s Your Uncle – BYU • 15 minutes ago

This is a big reason why DeathSantis is becoming more popular than Trump in certain demographics.

Lazy anti-intellectualism along with religious bigotry, casuistry and sophistry are replacing logic, skepticism and relevance as critical thinking skills. If you own a cell phone then you are smarter than Einstein and the hatedlibs, so why bother reading shit?

666 and 999 • 18 minutes ago

I know there are some military vets teaching in schools, so I’m sure he’ll have his schools’ military vets screened for mental health issues, right? Regardless, what happens if one or more of those military vets who have mild to severe PTSD due to being in combat situs suddenly freaks out because of some loud noise, or children screaming/crying, or the classroom bell going off? What happens if said vet gets triggered and suddenly starts reenacting a traumatizing event? What happens if the vet starts treating the children like POWs?

Steven in TX 🏳️‍🌈 ISOLATION 666 and 999 • 16 minutes ago

What happens when one of them is armed and the above mentioned flashback occurs?

Michael • 41 minutes ago

Phew! Who knew you didn’t need a degree in order to teach. All you have to do is be a military spouse and some other BS random criteria.

FuqTrmp • 44 minutes ago

Did it occur to him veterans might not want crappy low paying jobs and the shit storms around teaching too?

discouragerofhesitancy • an hour ago

Are the parents of school-age kids in FL alright with this?
Everything he does is performance based, one wonders if this was focus group tested.

Hayseed • an hour ago

I am a retired veteran and I plan to go into teaching, which is why I am at a university getting a PhD.

Trevor John • an hour ago

Will these veterans know how to teach different kinds of learners? Would you have veterans do brain surgery? Teachers are professionals. Republicans are determined to dumb down the population and devalue education, and actual qualifications.

Sam_Handwich • an hour ago

Anti-intellectualism is a cornerstone of conservatism

Refugay Sam_Handwich • an hour ago

AKA fascism.

Jack Frost Sam_Handwich • an hour ago

Anti-intellectualism is a cornerstone of conservatism fascism.

These people arent conservatives, they never were. Its been a cover for their real political leanings.

BeccaM • an hour ago

These Rethugs are deliberately trying to destroy public education.

Imagine some enlisted dink, absent any education training, qualifications, experience or certification whatsoever, trying to teach little kids how to read phonetically, or more advanced students history or civics or algebra, or high schoolers literature, chemistry, or physics.

Of course the point isn’t that they’ll be taught. They won’t be. They’ll “graduate” not knowing much of anything and thus be ineligible to seek college education.

A bunch of ignorant proles is all they’ll be. By design.

What, me worry? BeccaM • an hour ago

I wonder how the parents are going to like it. And this also answers George W Bush’s infamous question, “Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?”

Max-1 🔫+cult(R)=☠️ • an hour ago

Thumbnail

Dazzer • an hour ago

“I’ll take the Marine every day of the week and twice on Sunday.”

A common plot in many gay porn movies.

Karl Dubhe IV • an hour ago

I’m a veteran, this is a really stupid idea. Children aren’t soldiers, and shouldn’t be taught by those whose only qualification is that they were soldiers.

Brad Bailey • an hour ago

“4. Supremacy of the Military – Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.”

Fourteen Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism
By Dr. Lawrence Britt

http://www.rense.com/genera…

clydesplace • an hour ago

“We have a real treat for you today kids. We’re going to watch a movie called full Metal Jacket and shows you how to manage the nerds and misfits trying to infiltrate your classroom”

What, me worry? clydesplace • an hour ago

AND make you a manly man! You girls just go to the cafeteria and play Barbies.

TnCTampa • an hour ago

The GOP gonna eat that shit up come 2024 and if we aint careful so will a lot of so called “independents” who are just fucking GOP and ashamed to say it out loud. Lets see if the teachers will be able to push back at all on this. He is basically telling them they are useless so they either agree with him that they are ill suited to teach or they dont. Will be telling to see how many stick with desantis after this

120 thoughts on “DeSantis Vows To Prioritize Hiring Enlisted Military Vets As Teachers Over People With “Shoehorn U” Ed Degrees

  1. There is a real world problem caused by indoctrinated teachers teaching ‘progressive’ activism in public education. That problem is what DeSantis is tapping into. It’s very real. Sure, by all means vilify DeSantis. He deserves it. But don’t think for a moment he isn’t smart enough to cash in on a growing problem no Democrat will touch but who are more than willing to meekly go along with this this obscenity maintaining a zippered mouth.

    To defang DeSantis and other wannabe Trumpites by addressing the activist problem in public education is the smarter move. But, with or in spite of so many degrees behind so many Democrats, the level of Stupid by the ‘educated’ class unwilling and unable to see the problem they fertilize and refusing to address it effectively other than doubling down on misinformation and lies to justify it, has never been higher. Until tomorrow. And the day after that. With no end in sight. That’s how DeSantis will grow in power. Not a very ‘educated’ strategy.

    Like

    1. Hello Tildeb. You are right DeathSantis is educated. He is a Harvard and I think Yale educated lawyer. But that doesn’t mean his core personality is not a thug. The rest I disagree with you on. He is tapping into all the concerns of a small group, a group of about 13 to 22 % of the most fringe / religious of right wing voters. Not of the public but of the republican party. Most people either do not care about or are OK with being more tolerant and accepting than the traditionalist who want to return to the 1950s. What is called activist by the traditionalists is really continuing to move into the modern age. The state of our society is not progressive when compared to European societies and what is taught in their schools. The ones complaining and trying to reverse the acceptance and tolerance gained over the decades are those on the right wing that refuse to accept that times change and people’s understandings have improved. That is going to continue as it always has unless you wish to have leaders like Viktor Orbán the Hungarian Prime Minister. That is the model the republicans and far right are trying to establish here in the US, an authoritarian repressive government that is a throwback to the days when only white straight males had assumed authority and rights, woman were the stay at home wife to please those straight white males, blacks and non-whites knew their place and stayed there, and the LGBTQ+ were not heard from and scared to be found out for who they were. So think hard on what you are talking down and are against. Hugs

      Liked by 3 people

      1. My point is that DeSantis is using a problem that is real, the indoctrination of children in public education into ‘progressive’ activists. This is a national (well, actually, an international) problem that is fueling the rise of the extreme right in political authority. Many parents especially on the Left who are not evangelical have a real problem with this, Scottie. To get around this problem that DeSantis is using to effect, you are trying to pretend the ‘real’ problem is some fringe element, some bigoted right wing evangelical ‘traditionalists’ when you say, “The ones complaining and trying to reverse the acceptance and tolerance gained over the decades are those on the right wing that refuse to accept that times change and people’s understandings have improved.” Well, actually, my very point is championed by Francis Fukuyama – a liberal icon – who is also trying to point out that the vast swath of voters who determine elections are being turned away by the Democrats like you who call them names and vilify them for holding their legitimate concerns. The legitimate concerns are caused by the Democrats implementing and supporting an extreme left wing ideology you think is fine and dandy. That’s not the issue. The issue is that the solution to addressing what DeSantis is using to effect rests with the Democrats. Continue imposing ‘progressive’ ideology, empower the Republicans at the polls.

        So pointing fingers of blame at DeSantis and the Republicans as horrible people while rationalizing extreme left wing ideology being widely imposed on everyone I think is an exercise that will guarantee their continued electoral success. People like DeSantis. That’s who you are empowering. I don’t want that and I think the country is poorly served by that. So I write comments like this to try to get you to see that YOUR blanket support for the ‘progressive’ agenda – regardless of YOUR good intentions – is one very small part of the real problem here. The solution rests with people who share your opinion and support ‘progressive’ policies to stop fueling Republican success at the polls that neither of us wants and what will threaten democracy itself.

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        1. Hello Tildeb. You know I disagree with you entirely on the indoctrination of children aspect. That is happening from the right as I just posted with the removal of books and the banning of any discussion of different types of families only straight couples will be acknowledged. Indoctrination is forcing the Christian bible on to kids who may not be Christians and may even be of other religious faiths.

          You see any movement into the modern age as pushing a progressive agenda, and I see it as simply acknowledging that the world is constantly changing and until recently has mostly moved toward acceptance and tolerance. Some that seems to really upset the traditionalist. Such as yourself. Everything you say now was said in the 1960s about civil rights for black people.

          The right wing maga crowd likes to claim that when any judge finds for a progressive law, stance, or determines something is a right they are called activist judges. Yet when judges remove rights, deny progressive ideas or laws like the SCOTUS has done with Roe by clearly being activists to reach a predetermined ruling, the right wing claims that those judges are just ruling on the laws. This is the same thing with schools indoctrinated students. If you agree with the information kids are receiving, then it is not indoctrination. But if you disagree it is then a horrible attempt to twist young minds about something you hate. The majority of parents agree with teaching kids reality, acceptance, and tolerance. You know, the progressive model of education. The right wing maga group wants to go back to the 1950s of forced prayers, teaching of religious subjects, lack of sexual information / knowledge, and lack of all the modern things we understand now about sexual attraction, sexuality, and gender. Never change should be their motto.

          Are you seriously complaining about me / the left telling the truth about what DeathSantis and the right wing maga thugs are doing at the same time as he is on a full scale all out attacking war against the LGBTQ+ calling teachers / the left pedophiles and groomer. The vilifying is being done by that side, the side you seem to be supportive of. Give it a rest. The minority group you are champion is a small minority but they are willing to use threats, violence, hate, intimidation, and yes gang assaults to enforce their views. They want to seem larger than they are but when these people try to get signatures for being on the ballots, we find that most of those signatures are fake and false. They don’t normally qualify. They are the 1 million moms, who in truth are a few thousand Facebook followers and 4,200 Twitter followers. What is happening is you have religious haters backed up by gangs of thugs which are the right wing brownshirts.

          You write these comments to try to convince people that the progressives are wrong, the right is correct, and you sow disinformation I have to then correct. You do this because you think you are correct, and we are all wrong. Fact is I and those of my opinions think you’re the one who is wrong and that you are pushing a view that is harmful to society and children. Hugs

          Liked by 1 person

  2. Oh, and the Cass Review’s interim report out of Britain (that caused the immediate shut down of the Tavistock gender reassignment clinic) absolutely and utterly excoriates the ‘progressive’ position promoted on this website about affirmation-only medical ‘treatment’ for gender dysphoria in children. Now, where have we heard all of this before? Oh right… the latest was out of the Florida Department of Health in April (not that it received much if any media coverage and, being out of Florida, meant it must be wrong, am I right?).

    Thought you’d want to know, Scottie. Those sidebar graphs are fictions.

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    1. Hello Tildeb. You do realize that the Florida department of health is run by a guy who just claimed that monkey pox was no big deal and the vaccine for it was not studied. The same guy who said that that Covid was no big deal and that the vaccines were harmful, instead he worked for the Frontline Doctors groups that scam people out of a lot of money to prescribe Ivermectin as a cure / treatment for Covid. These are the same people that support the don’t say gay bill written by a guy who admitted he couldn’t stand that gay kids were accepted in schools instead of targeted for abuse.

      On the Cass review are you seriously championing a right wing government report that supports conversion therapy on kids? Seriously. Despite all the evidence of it being torture and outlawed in many areas along with being scientifically unsupported. I did find a lot of information debunking the interim report, but one thing that I did notice that everyone seems to support is that the number of clinics that treat trans kids needs to increase dramatically and that the report said they were unable to decide on puberty blockers but agreed with the treatment of young people with hormones to masculinize or feminize them as needed. The report tried to say that the starting point for treatment should be the accepted treatment now given, but then tried to argue that first trying to convince kids they were in the right body to begin with by conversion therapy. Too many kids claiming to be a different gender as if it was a fad or made them special. I wonder where we have heard that before. I have included quotes below debunking the review and showing how it was an attempt to give cover for the conclusion the anti-trans group wanted to push. So both authorities you championed were right wing anti-trans trying to push a negative treatment for trans kids. But thank you for letting me know about the report as I will post the documents debunking it and showing it is the right wing government trying to stop the accepted and correct treatment of trans children. Here are the link I got the information from. https://growinguptransgender.com/2022/04/06/the-failure-of-the-cass-review/ Hugs

      Despite evidence that conversion therapy on trans children is particularly harmful, with research showing “For transgender adults who recalled gender identity conversion efforts before age 10 years, exposure was significantly associated with an increase in the lifetime odds of suicide attempts”.
      For days now, MPs and commentators have cited the Cass review, in justification of the need for conversion therapy specifically for trans kids.

      Of course they do not say conversion therapy for trans kids. They talk of ‘children suffering from gender confusion or gender distress’, they talk of ‘exploratory therapy. They talk of ‘unintended consequences, by which some clearly mean, they fear the law would stop them conducting conversion therapy on trans kids.

      Those who want to conduct conversion therapy on trans kids hide behind a new favourite term of ‘exploratory therapy’. It is a friendly sounding rebrand of conversion therapy. It is focused on probing, delaying, questioning and at its heart, problematising trans identities. There is nothing wrong with being trans. Some kids are trans – get over it.

      The same people who actually want conversion therapy for trans kids, are trying to create confusion on the meaning of affirmative therapy. They are trying to paint affirmation as a bad thing, as something forced. They are wrong and they know it. Affirmation is about meeting a person where they are, about listening to what they need. It has space for as much talk therapy on identity as a person wants. Without coercion. Without compulsion. Without considering trans or cis as a bad outcome.

      https://growinguptransgender.com/2022/04/06/the-failure-of-the-cass-review/

      Now in case you want to argue the review was not stacked with anti-trans people who were using the cover of a study to form their conclusion.

      There was Cass’ personal twitter following of a load of highly transphobic groups & no trans people.

      There was the Cass review’s initial refusal to even say the word trans kids, in a review aimed primarily at helping trans kids.

      There was the lack of any trans people on the Cass team, and the fact that the Cass team explicitly asked for people with no knowledge or experience of trans-ness, as though that was a preferable.

      The fact there was no oversight group consisting of respected trans health experts and trans community leaders.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Don’t forget to vilify Sweden and Demark and France, too. It’s all a giant right wing conspiracy to impose conversion therapy on prepubescent children. Good grief Scottie. You never used to be this evangelical.

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        1. Hello Tildeb. You put up the DeathSantis health department as an example of your point and you think I should take that fringe seriously? Get real. Did you also claim that Covid was planned and the vaccines were harmful while championing a parasite removal medication as a cure / treatment for a virus? I go with mainstream accepted science. You have to admit your position and those you cite are the outliers, the fringe. So don’t call me the evangelical one on this, you are the one pushing a view not accepted by the majority of doctors. Hugs

          Liked by 1 person

      2. I know you will probably have problems with me pointing this out, but I do feel there’s some validity to the perspective that there ARE “kids claiming to be a different gender” because they want and, in some cases, NEED the attention. IMO, THIS is why counseling is needed FAR AND ABOVE any kind of knee-jerk “treatments.”

        Liked by 1 person

        1. And so it’s a very real problem when even counselling of children not directly aimed at affirmation only is defined to be ‘conversion therapy’ and therefore prohibited by medical colleges as ‘unethical’ and ‘unprofessional’ and contrary to ‘best practices’. Parents aren’t just legitimately concerned when even their honest desire to help their child is similarly defined to be ‘conversion therapy’ – they are enraged enough to vote for any Republican who says this is wrong. That includes DeSantis. There are literally hundreds of examples where schools – from school boards to administrators to teachers – have helped prepubescent children only be ‘affirmed’ towards altering their sex by physical, chemical, and surgical procedures without EVER having to inform the child’s parents. There are dozens and dozens of cases where a parent who finds out and raises a concern is then subject to child protective services and the child moved into foster care. To pretend all of these parents are somehow right wing evangelical extremists is to deny reality in favor of a cherished belief equivalent to the very worst kind of fundamental religious extremism.

          What’s astounding to me is the number of gay and lesbian adults supportive of transgender ideology who are absolutely oblivious to the growing number of de-transitioned young people who now understand their earlier confusion was because they were gay and/or lesbian and didn’t want to be that way. And so the transgendered ideology being affirmed all around them was very appealing and following the affirmation trail would then magically ‘solve’ all their problems. Of course, it didn’t. Hence the de-transitioning.

          Why more gays and lesbians who should know better do not immediately grasp just how appealingly toxic this ideology is for young gays and lesbians leaves me speechless. They’re not listening. They are just believing something that isn’t true. And doubling down in their anti-reality beliefs every single time legitimate concerns are raised.

          This feeds the Republican pushback and gains Democratic voters who literally have no political alternative to this insanity.

          Like

          1. Hello Tildeb. Please stop spreading disinformation. The number of detransition trans people is 2.4%. We have been over that. That is people who have stayed with the transitioning program and followed through with medical transitioning. The fact is kids who are not sure don’t qualify for medical assistance to transition. Some may get puberty blockers to prevent the wrong puberty until they decide or commit. Those that are not really trans simply drop out. I covered all this with citations.

            Affirmative therapy is just what the name implies. Therapy to affirm the existing gender / sex and making the kid accept that. We went through this with sexual / gender attraction. Everyone but the diehard religious and the right wing thugs now understands that attraction is inborn. It cannot be changed. What can be changed is how a person might behave and that is really what the religious / right wing people want to do. Change the behavior because they cannot accept the truth that some people are gay and some people are born in the wrong body gender / sex wise. What leaves me speechless is that some people still support the views that you do, rather than help a child to accept who they are you want to fix them, force them to remain something they are not until it is too late to change it. We have been through decades of research on this type of therapy, and we know it is harmful and wrong.

            Again those pushing this are the fringe outliers of the medical / religious fields. People desperate to deny the changing society. It is a fact that the majority of medical associations / providers think the current method of supporting and assisting kids to transition if the medical work ups agree they are in the wrong body, is the correct way to help trans kids. That is something you cannot deny. Hugs

            Like

        2. Hello Nan. That is propaganda spread by the anti-trans people. Just like teachers are groomers and pedophiles. Do you know that before a child can have any treatment, they have to have medical work ups / full exams dealing with their entire make up, mental, emotional, and physical. We are not talking kids who think it is funny to put on their mothers clothing or the other genders clothes at Halloween. These kids do get mental health counselling to see if they are really trans before any treatment. Plus kids have to be willing to socially transition by being the gender they claim to be, which is very hard and singles them out for abuse in our schools / society. You really think kids are doing that for fun? What is being discussed is “affirmative therapy” also known as conversion therapy. That means making a kid accept that they are the gender of the sex determination at birth. If it dangles you are a boy, if it doesn’t you are a girl, no other thing tolerated. Nan I am sorry you are having trouble understanding times have changed and the world now understands more about sex and gender than ever before. Just as we have found out more about space, about physics, and biology. I read yesterday that scientists have managed to restart dead organs. People faced this social change every time more acceptance and tolerance is extended. It happened with civil rights, with the gays being accepted, with same sex marriage. It happened with Roe and sadly the traditionalist won that war even though it took them 50 years. It is happening now with trans kids and the traditionalist are fight back. Kids know what gender they are just as they know what gender they are attracted to and sometimes that doesn’t match what the adults want. It really is that simple. Hugs

          Like

          1. I am sorry you are having trouble understanding times have changed and the world now understands more about sex and gender than ever before.

            Scottie, that isn’t a fair statement. I DO know times have changed, but this doesn’t mean I have to accept what’s happening without question. And IMO, this issue, in particular, is not “cut and dried” so I feel I have the right to question it and to take the time to learn more.

            Something you have NOT experienced is raising a child. There are all sorts of things that go on in their lives as they grow up. To just blindly accept that they are “feeling different” about their sex is not something most parents are willing to do and immediately send them off for “counseling” or puberty blockers or whatever. And I think this is why I have some rather strong misgivings about the entire topic.

            Liked by 2 people

            1. Hello Nan. I have not raised a child you are correct. But I have heard all these same arguments as a gay kid. I knew I was gay by 6 or 7 years old. My sisters were telling me I was gay by five I just did not know what it meant. You seem to accept that kids are just waking up and saying hey today I am a different gender, and the medical providers just start them on medical transitioning. That is not happening! The kids are screened and given emotional, mental, and physical examinations / work ups.
              I DO know times have changed, but this doesn’t mean I have to accept what’s happening without question.
              Questions are fine if they are to learn. I welcome questions for that, and I work hard to double check the facts I use and post. But Nan the majority of medical associations support this as the accepted and preferred treatment for trans kids. I don’t know more than they do, do you? At some point you have to agree these are medical professionals that as a group say that the steps of supporting social transitioning while all the medical work ups are being done leading to medical assistance of puberty blockers until with the older teens for then to get hormone therapy. If you accept these medical associations and their members to be right on Covid, heart surgery, all other medical procedures but on this one issue you think are wrong, what does that really say? Hugs

              Like

              1. AGAIN … you are accusing me of things that are not accurate. You write that I think the medical community is wrong “on this one issue.” That is NOT what I’m saying or thinking. What I AM saying is that, in my mind, the matter is NOT cut and dried. Yes, I do have reservations … but that’s my prerogative. And I’m sorry, Scottie, but I’m not going to accept and/or agree with what’s happening simply based on your blog posts/comments OR the links you provide. As with ALL matters, there are always going to be two sides and/or different interpretations.

                As you know, in most matters, we totally agree. Please allow me the courtesy of putting this one on the back burner until I have made up my mind.

                Liked by 1 person

                1. Hello Nan. I am only going on what you write. You say it is not cut and dried, so you don’t accept the majority opinion of the medical associations that say these are the best practices. They think they have established the best practices.

                  You don’t have to change your mind or agree with what I post. But if you comment I will reply. You are free to read and comment, read and not comment or simply not read. My job is not to force you to agree with me. I provide the correct information and I try to dispel the misinformation. There is a lot of disinformation to correct.

                  You seem to think I am pushing you. I am not. But I won’t ignore the very real threat to equality and children’s health needs. I see clearly what is happening. The right is doing the same thing now to trans rights that they did to abortion. They want to stop it before it takes hold. How many red states have taken the medical decisions from the parents and doctors to ban them instead of following the accepted best practices of the medical professionals? What about parents’ rights, what makes the republican lawmakers know more than the doctors?

                  Read on only if you want to know how I see this issue which is a fight for equality and acceptance. I spell it out quite clearly how I see the issue.

                  On this issue there is not two different sides that are equal as it is either you support trans people / rights or you don’t. This is the same fight as with other groups and equality, either you accept they are equal and deserve equal treatment or you are against them. This trans fight going on is the same expanded understand fight as rights for black people to be equal to whites and gays to be equal to straights. Trans people exist, they deserve the medical treatment that is accepted as best practice, they deserve an equal place in society. That includes trans kids.

                  Right now we have seen three decades of work for public acceptance and equality destroyed in less than 2 years by red state governors who are trying to appeal to the worst small minority in their party who want all that disagree with them gone from existence / reality. They are not content to just not do them themselves they want the entire world to be as they like only. Again the country went through this before. Those times equality and civil rights won. Will they win again? But make no mistake the right wing media has fixated on putting out as much disinformation as possible and Tildeb repeats it. I will fight against that and because I personally have experienced it, I will fight back as hard as possible. Hugs

                  Like

                2. Scottie, it appears obvious to me that we are coming at this from two different directions. You seem to think I’m questioning medical practices and, I suppose, in a way I am — but only to the point that from what I’ve read (on your blog and elsewhere) there are too many who simply accept what the CHILD says and start various “treatments.” I really don’t care if an ADULT wants to make this kind of drastic change to satisfy their “inner feelings,” but I do NOT like to read about questioning CHILDREN being “treated” with puberty blockers and other medical treatments. And this includes the teen years, which have been substantiated as the most unsettling/disturbing years in one’s life. To simply “go for it” because the underage person has some weird feelings about themselves is, IMO, NOT justification for medical “gender change” treatments. Counseling, yes. Medical treatments, no.

                  As an added note — I sometimes think it’s the individuals themselves that are creating all this “equality” hullabaloo. I was just reading a discussion on Quora and most trans simply do what feels good to them without making a big deal of who or what they are in their own mind.

                  Liked by 1 person

                3. Swinging fists and noses. It only matters when a connection occurs. Notice that it wasn’t until now July of 2022 that the FDA FINALLY put a warning on puberty blockers. Until then, such blockers were nothing more than a ‘pause’ on the yellow brick road to gender equilibrium and happiness. Oh, the warning comes after a bunch of girls (young female humans) ages 5-12 developed these very serious side effects, most for precocious puberty but one in the process of transitioning (not that it ever happens under the age of 16 according to Scottie).

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                4. Hello Tildeb. I am tired of having to track down the many rabbit trails of false information you shit out. I want a citation on this please. If not, it simply is not true. Hugs

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                5. Hello Nan. Your feelings are reasonable if you never asked yourself when you knew you were straight. Did you ever doubt that boys were who you were attracted to? Or was it simply who you were, something normal to you?

                  See I always knew I was attracted to boys, and of course with my abuse I knew what part of boys / men I preferred, I never had interest in female parts and really never wanted to play with girls even though I did sometimes just to get to play with their brothers.

                  Did you always know you were a girl? Did you object when dressed in girl clothing, had girl toys, or your room was decorated in girl things? I bet yes you always knew and no you never objected. You knew deep down you were a girl.

                  That is the same with trans kids. (And gay kids) They know they are different. They know they are not what other people including their parents are trying to make them.

                  However if what Tildeb claims and you seem to imply that kids at any age could wake up and decide they are the other gender, as the right likes to claim boys wanting to shower with girls {as Mike Huckabee the preacher claimed he would do as a boy}, so demanding to be treated as a girl right then well I also would object. But Nan as I have said, that is not happening.

                  You have had children, ever need medical care for them. From earaches to teeth cleaning? I was severely abused and when the doctors examined me because of that my adoptive mother was in the room. Oh yes I was going to say something blaming her! But that is my point, think of everything you had to do to get medical care for your children. Now picture one of them at any age being a minor walking into the doctor’s office and claiming they were there for puberty blockers or transitioning medically.

                  It is a scare tactic used by the right, kids are either just trying to see nude girls (notice it is never girls trying to see nude guys) which makes no sense in the age of the innerwebs, or kids who are not being checked out getting their body parts chopped off. Again, look at the reality of getting medical care in the US.

                  One last thing which is about puberty blockers. First as I pointed out elsewhere, they have been used for decades for a lot of medical needs, they are not something new. Heck they are used to treat testicular cancer. But all the medical science says they are reversable and again they are not handed out like M&Ms, they are a drug controlled and prescribed by medical professionals.

                  But the alternative is if they are not given to stop the wrong gender puberty from happening do you understand what will happen in the body? Someone convinced, and totally sure they are a girl will have to go through male puberty developing a male body. Then when an adult they will have to transition but will always look sort of like a male, something they abhor and are not. Same with a girl who is sure she is male; he will be forced to go through female puberty and develop breasts and other characteristics he knows is not him. That is why puberty blockers are so important. The right rants about body mutilation when medical transition happens and part of why that is necessary is because those people had to go through the wrong puberty. Hugs

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                6. My FINAL comment on this … I don’t know if you can access it or not, but this link has a plethora of input from trans folk … and the various ways they have dealt with it. Some have stressed, others have taken it in stride and simply went with the flow. But THIS comment, I found to be the most revealing:

                  Now I’m not, but as a person who used to be against transsexuality and homosexuals, I might not exactly give you a scientific answer. It is going to be a plain one.
                  I felt weird around them.

                  Maybe there’s more truth in this person’s comment that many of us want to admit.

                  Liked by 1 person

                7. Hello Nan. I have not opened the link but I sure can understand that feeling. I think it doesn’t take being anti- trans or anti-gay to be feeling weird in a room of “them”. I thought I was the only one who felt like I did in high school, even when in a Christian boarding school a person younger than me guy desperately tried to tell me how he felt, (Iwas so stupid but so scared) and when I met others like me, I was weirded out. As a straight person I think you just cannot understand what goes through your mind and what you need to adjust too. Once as solider in Berlin desperate to find other gay guys but not knowing how because I was a stupid kid, I sat at a table with some adults trying to hint but not realizing two of the other adults at the table were gay. See Nan that is the point. If we deny kids’ education, if we deny that those people exist then we are causing such harm. I will go open the link. Hugs

                  I want to add this before I open the link. If you really have questions and want to learn, then don’t let this be your last comment or question. I really will try to answer honestly and fully as you know I have in the past. My feeling is people learn by asking honest questions and listening to the answers and trust me I have had to answer some very embarrassing questions. But the saying the truth will win out is something I hope will set the LGBTQ+ free. Hugs

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                8. You use the term ‘equality’ when what you are actually supporting is demanding special treatment. When you use the term acceptance what you are actually supporting is imposed falsehoods.

                  Look, Scottie, I know your heart is the right place, just like most evangelicals are really nice people who mean well. But those intentions can be and I think are harnessed to commit great evil.

                  You keep referring, for example, to liberalism’s achievements in civil rights and individual legal protections while advocating very strongly for their destruction and replacement with group-based privilege and punishments. You think the two are equivalently supportive. They’re not. They are polar opposites in effect.

                  You think absolutely nothing, for example, of how including biological males into female sports categories by imposition could be anything but good, ignoring how this forces all females to yield their place to males by insisting that how these males identify trumps female biology, that the feelings of these males must be accepted as real and primary while pointing out the biological advantages they import is denied as bigotry… while also telling females their concerns and loss of status as a biological category (even the terms used to describe females) and the loss of differentiated spaces based on these biological differences is actually oh-so liberal!

                  This is not true. What you’re actually agreeing with is the narrative of your preferred belief over reality no different than an evangelical choosing their beliefs over any and all contradictions reality provides. And the greatest tragedy that is deeply ironic, I think, is that you are doing your level best to harm many young gay and lesbian kids to put off and medicalize their biological sexuality (there’s a reason transactivists have captured Stonewall for their main organization). I think in 30 years this period of time will be considered by gay and lesbians as the prerogative time of the trans Star Chamber and how it devastated the ranks of young gays and lesbians. I think that’s what you’re supporting whether you know it or not. I do not expect you to agree to question your own beliefs and preferred narrative anymore than trying for the same by explaining the overwhelming evidence for evolution to a young earth creationist. If you stay true to form, you will have already completely dismissed what I’ve just written. There’s your evidence.

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                9. Hello Tildeb. I don’t think your heart is in the right place, and I have been honest about this. If I can find the correct information to the disinformation you put in your comments so could you. I think you are pushing a right wing narrative, one I can find on many right wing media channels. As I keep telling you, I have heard it before.

                  Oh the trope equality is special rights.

                  Hello the religious right wants its talking points back. My dog that loves gravy that is an old one but one I have heard often when it came to same gender marriage, or as we say marriage equality.

                  Tildeb the entire biological males into female sports we have already discussed and your talking point has been debunked. Do we have to go through the same old tired points again?

                  OK quick recap, trans women are not somehow moving into women’s sports and stealing all the awards. It is not happening and even at the Olympics the trans woman weightlifter that so many on the right wanted to claim was so unfair … she lost. A 21 year old woman beat her. The truth is something the right hates to admit because it ruins their narrative. People are different and some have natural advantages over others. But to compete trans people must be medically certified and that means if they are competing in women’s sports they are women.

                  Next!

                  Wait, let’s not move on. Tildeb when it comes to this subject you love to throw out fear mongering bait, but please why do you never add facts to this? Why do you never list all the times women were shut out of their sports due to trans women? I know why, because it is not happening. It is another TERF talking point.

                  Now next!

                  Oh dogs that love gravy. The old TERF trans people are erasing lesbians and you even added gays. WOW. Just astounding. Tildeb I am going to address this for the people reading because I have already addressed this with you.

                  The idea these anti-trans people are trying to push is that somehow anti-gay families are forcing gay kids to transition to the other sex because having a trans kid is much more socially acceptable to them in their communities. Yes that flies with religious bigot USA. Yes it is much more socially appealing for the adults to say our kid is not gay, they are trans gender! Yea! Little tommy is now in a dress isn’t it great! Grow up. That is another Tucker Carlson talking point. Yes look it up he said this. And Tildeb repeats it.

                  Tell me again you are a liberal? Hugs

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                10. My advice is to listen to girls who have detransitioned. Their testimonials by the hundreds reveal your steadfast beliefs do not align with reality. Nothing but so-called acceptance prior to and during transition and then nothing but vilification after going the process and telling the truth about it that you think is a net good. Like sterility. Like loss of ever being able to orgasm. Like a life now filled with medicalization and permanent disfigurement. You just wave it all away as a ‘right wing talking point’ on the one hand while pretending you actually care about harm on the other. Or, more accurately saying the former out of one side of your mouth and saying the latter out of the other side.

                  The difference between us, Scottie, is that I think it is your beliefs that do not align with reality and not your character. You do not share this willingness to be equally sympathetic with me because doing so, I am only too aware, would not fit with the intolerance baked into the ‘progressive’ belief you hold with such certainty.

                  When a biological male takes the place of a biological female on any women’s sports team, it is ALWAYS a woman who loses out. You refuse to admit even this much, so certain are you in your beliefs that this reality just doesn’t rank any consideration. Again, why not listen to young women who have gone through bumping in real life and have had to yield their earned position to a biological male. They will tell you it brings into question why bother trying at all when you can lose out to biological male with undeniable biological sex-based advantages? Again, you simply wave this away and claim only a few podium places have been yielded and so what’s the big deal, that it must therefore be dismissed by everyone as just another right wing talking point? What you’re waving away is evidence from reality that your ideological beliefs when acted upon create a loss for females. Always females. Females identifying as males simply do not bump other males, Scottie for a very good reason: the physical advantages that come with sex-based biology. Only the True Believers of ‘progressive’ ideology think reality shouldn’t matter.

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                11. Hey Tildeb, my advice to you is to listen to the 97.6% of people who transitioned who are happy they did and satisfied with having done so. Stop acting like 2 people out of 100 are correct and the other 98 are all wrong and don’t matter. That is seriously disingenuous. Yes I wave it way as a right wing talking point because it is a very small minority compared to the ones glad they transitioned.

                  I am not sympathetic towards you at all. You are lying deliberately on this issue and on several others. You are not just misinformed you reject the correct information to push stuff that is constantly shown wrong. You’re a bigot. You are anti-trans and the points you try to make which are incorrect are all from right wing sites. As I said before you have your own blog to lie on, I don’t care for lying here. I don’t care for bigots or bigotry. If people come here acting like racist I call them racists, and if they act like bigots I call the bigots. If the name fits …

                  Hey Tildeb, when a trans woman take a spot on a women’s team they are all still women. No woman lost anything. We have been over all this, we spend days hashing this out. I quoted facts and peer reviewed medical articles that showed you were incorrect, yet here you are again pushing the same old lies and fear.

                  The deal is you don’t accept the idea of trans women. You’re like all the right wing anti-trans people who never seem to care about trans men, it is only the trans women you dislike so much. I guess it is easier to attack them and create fear that way. Guess what, get over it. They are here and they exist, they have the right to be themselves. Trans rights are civil rights and human rights. Hugs

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        3. I agree, but also wonder just how many parents are really doing more than acknowledging their child’s ID at any given time, while getting counselling for a good while before really making decisions for the child that any of them will regret? Each state likely differs, but I know here, it’s still a private medical decision. That said, there are so many guidelines for prepping for affirmative treatments. Seriously. It isn’t as if even adults can just start transitioning just because they awakened and felt like a man, a woman, or neither/both. I bet most states are the same, if they even allow affirmative treatment at all for anyone.

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        1. Hello Tildeb. I worked with nurses, great ICU critical care nurses who saved lives daily, who thought the yearly flu vaccine were dangerous and gave you the flu. It is impossible and they should know that, but they claimed it anyway and refused to take the vaccines until required to. But I got a read for you.
          Conversion therapy downplayed and attacks on affirmative model at Tavistock whistleblowers’ book launch. Sue was trying to sell her book! https://transsafety.network/posts/marcus-sue-evans/

          On 5th June, Marcus and Susan Evans—best known for whistleblowing on the Tavistock GIDS health service—convened a conference entitled “Gender Dysphoria – A Therapeutic Model for Working With Children” to market their new book of the same title. This was advertised through both the British Psychoanalytic Association (BPA)1 and British Psychoanalytic Council (BPC)2. This conference meandered through a range of views and speculation against transition, and against regulations banning conversion therapy. This included attempts to downplay the long and combined history of sexual orientation and gender identity conversion efforts (SOGICE), while undermining existing scientific consensus and research into the harms done by challenging trans people’s identities. Over the course of the event, two different psych professionals in the audience spoke out challenging the pseudoscientific nature of the conference, as well as the self-congratulatory terms on which the conference was being held, without even having invited practitioners of the practices being criticised to be part of discussion. Additionally Marcus Evans leaked private information about two individuals he likely should not have leaked.

          This gave the impression that the problem faced by child or adolescent patients are primarily that they are fixed in their belief that they are trans and want to transition, and not trying to help the child in exploring and developing their own self-understanding and their own competence to understand themselves. It also seemed to clearly play down the relevance of modern research around treatment and support for patients with gender dysphoria.

          The pair of them shortly after diverted onto a tangent about the “political” move to depathologise what used to be called Gender Identity Disorder. Marcus Evans said it’s “unhelpful to say there isn’t a psychological issue in terms of what’s going on here… the mind has got to be looked at before we make changes to the body.”

          In other words it is a sickness that needs psychological fixing rather than acceptance of the child’s claim of a different gender. Then they go into how it is political not medical, which is only because the medical is accpeted and they don’t like that. There is so much more at the link above. It tears apart Sue Evans anti-trans positions and show the anti-trans bias she was starting from. Hugs

          Liked by 1 person

  3. Scottie, I’m here to say: voter turnout is everything. Not even bothering people about how they’re going to vote, just making sure they do. (Working on issues comes later.) It’s the only thing that’s ever worked in KS, and it’s the only thing that works in any red state.

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    1. Hello Ali. Congratulations to KS for the saving abortion vote. I agree we need to get out the vote. The problem is that with so much voter suppression and gerrymandering for a lot of people in poor areas or those demographically non-white voting has become very difficult. The only thing that may help is due to how these red states handled Covid a lot of their supporters died. Hugs

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      1. Hi, and hugs back! Those problems and reasons are why everyone who possibly can vote must do so. Even in a gerrymandered district, the numbers will show up in the counts. Gerrymandered districts either can’t be won or are highly expensive to win, but numbers still go in to the stats, to show the amount of support. Gerrymandering, especially, discourages the vote as much as it dilutes it, but people not voting is how we got here. Meanwhile, collectively, there are more of us than of the other side, even when our votes are diluted, and that’s got conservatives very worried. That’s probably why they’re gun nuts, eh?

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        1. From Fukuyama: “It is hardly the case that the vast majority of the over 70 million Americans who voted for Donald Trump in 2020 were hard-core MAGA types driven by racism and misogyny. A large number were in fact Hispanics and other minorities whom Trump had vilified, but who were nonetheless wary of Biden’s cultural and economic policies. Many conservatives were not voting for Trump as much as against what they perceived to be a woke extremist Democratic alternative. Progressive cultural policies have proved electorally toxic even in deep blue places like Portland, San Francisco, Seattle, and New York, where far-left Democrats have lost to centrist ones in recent elections, or have been recalled from school boards and other elective offices. In any event, presidential elections are not won by mobilizing progressive activists and driving up vote counts in California and New York; they are won in swing states by persuading centrist and independent voters.”

          ( Source )

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          1. OK. Well, this comment was about GOTV specifically regarding Scottie’s reply to my first one, not about votes or parties. Thanks, though!

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            1. Sorry Ali: the Fukuyama quote was in reply to Scottie about getting out more voters to win elections. My offering was that to get more power requires more districts, and that more district wins come from appealing to centrist voters in swing states than getting out more voters in already blue districts in urban settings (many of which are NOW being lost to Republicans as the quote shows). To accomplish this means stopping the ‘progressive’ and hostile takeover of the Democratic party… a task that falls to the rank and file Democrats, by real liberals, and not these extremists.

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              1. OK. Well, now we disagree on that, which shouldn’t be a problem. The Dem party tried what you write, appealing more to centrists to get more Dems elected, and ended up with voters doing what they’ve always done. Harry Truman called it correctly when he said that voters would go with the registered Republican every time before going with a Republican lite running as a Dem. Some things are political, it is unfortunate. Civil and human rights should never be up for negotiation in order to get votes to get elected.

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              2. And we all know how to do that, don’t we! We go file (for free) and run for precinct committeepeople. I did that, and ended up with a spot on the state party platform committee. What I got done was a state party resolution, soundly passed, that no Democrat would ever support any candidate who wanted to privatize or otherwise decimate Social Security. That was a big deal when it happened. And everyone can do it! (And should!)

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          2. Hello Tildeb. Oh yes democrats have been removed from school boards. With only one exception for mismanagement, all of the rest were angry magas, often bussed into to board meetings screaming about masks, vaccines, CRT, and LGBTQ+. The maga right wing playbook as touted by Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity who continued to stoke the outrage. Tildeb everything you write goes right back to the right wing position and views.

            You seem to be unaware that Hispanics can be horribly racist just like some gays can also. When polled why they supported tRump the majority claimed it was his immigration policies. They got here “legally” and wanted “those ones to have to do it that way” not realizing the ones claiming asylum were doing it legally by crossing the border and asking for asylum. You ever meet a first generation Cuban in Miami? Those that came over when Castro was in power. Dogs that love gravy some of them are racist bastards who vote republican because the republicans will punish Castro for them. Their kids are not so much that way, and it eventually breeds out of them.

            No elections are not won by appealing to the center. That has never worked but is still pushed by corporate democrats and the republican right. Why? The answer is in the name corporate. Their big money donors are the same, big business / the wealthy who do not want progressive change that will reduce their profits. Hillary was in the center. when given a choice between republican and republican lite anyone who leans left will take the full republican. Independent voters are important, but they are gotten by policies that give them something to make their lives easier, so they respond better to progressive policies than corporate ones.

            Activists are very important in getting out the vote and changing peoples minds. To think otherwise is silly. Activists drive the get-out to vote mechanisms, they do the volunteering, they do the mailing, they do the phone banking and so much more. They are crucial and desperately needed in any campaign. Hugs

            Liked by 1 person

        2. Hello Ali. You are correct that there are more of us, but sadly we all don’t vote. As you say, voter turnout will be critical and we must do everything we can to get people to the pools, even as the right tries to stop us. The right likes to think they have all the guns, but the truth is a lot of us have guns also, we just don’t feel so insecure in our manhood that we have to carry them around all the time. I do expect violence at some polling places this year as the republicans demonize anyone not voting for them, and teaching poll watchers how to challenge every voting non-white person. Hugs

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  4. As to the general discussion here in comments, let me just throw this concept in. I read it elsewhere concerning a far different subject, but the comment is a good bottom line: ‘The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.’ https://crookedtimber.org/2018/03/21/liberals-against-progressives/#comment-729288 . The whole thing was a hard read for me, being as liberal as I am. But I read it, and I’m glad I did. It shows where Left and Right ought to be (and used to be) joining hands. Yet, that doesn’t happen anymore, it seems. There’s always gotta be someone on the outside.

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    1. Exactly: politics that bring people together with common concerns rather than divide them by different identities. That’s where centrists and real liberal interests can be tapped. The entire ‘progressive’ movement is undoing liberal victories like civil and equality and is busy replacing them with an immutable power hierarchy of victim and victimizer GROUPS. Being a member of such a group in this framing is like inheriting original sin or sainthood with privileges or punishments. This divides people and is intended to do so to create the necessary conditions for revolution. We’re at the front end of that today. It would be a shame for the western nations to eject our liberal inheritance of shared rights and freedoms on the alter of ‘progressive’ ideology.

      Remember, Ibram X Kendi’s central thesis is, “The only remedy to racist discrimination is antiracist discrimination. The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination.”

      This is as divisive and deplorable a notion as it comes. This is what ‘progressives’ support today whether they realize it or not. And it is as anti-liberal a notion as they come.

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      1. I’m posting this in the interest of discussion that could turn lively, but not unfriendly.
        It isn’t politics that needs to bring people together, it’s issues. Issues aren’t politics, nor party-oriented, even, but are about solving problems for the greater good so that everyone gets to live freely, but especially, gets to live. Turning everything into politics then pointing fingers at parties is a lazy way to try absolve ourselves from doing what we can to solve problems and improve things for everyone, IMO. I’m not pointing fingers here; I’ve got long political, in-party activist experience, and I’ve paid attention over my coupla-decades+ of work. One of the things I’ve found is that calling everything political immediately divides people. Then, they can throw up their hands because the other side sucks, and don’t have to deal with unpleasant issues.
        My understanding is, if we’re free, and we don’t like what someone’s doing but it’s hurting no one, we don’t need to pass a law. If we’re free, and we don’t like that someone’s hurting someone or holding someone back, we may need to pass a law. Party oughtn’t enter the discussion.
        We the people are no longer at that point; everything is made into politics, parties decide where they are, and voters go with what they like. And what voters vote for shows what they want. To me, there are no excuses for voting for someone like DeSantis or Trump. None whatsoever, never was one good excuse for it. If someone doesn’t like their school board, they should run for it, not vote for someone who’s going to hurt kids in general (and with life-long results) because of one single issue. We the people need to start participating again!

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        1. Well, that would be lovely if politics weren’t so partisan. But it is. It would be lovely if issues brought people together. But they rarely do. I wish there were a legitimate 3rd party that occupied the huge center swath of voters dedicated to finding that ‘radical’ middle path. But there isn’t. There are two parties – both captured by their respective fringe element. One is authoritarian in ideology, the other totalitarian in ideology. My fear and the one with historical precedence is that the majority of voters given such a choice to address literally every issue that isn’t a plebiscite will choose authoritarianism over totalitarianism. Sure, most people presume all of this is hyperbole (and I sincerely hope it is) but it’s also a slow moving slide into disaster in that either democracy will be lost OR liberalism will be lost. In either case, it’s a lose-lose for the citizenry.

          So something has to change to avoid this from happening.

          And this is where I think the Fukuyama link helps identify what is needed. And it’s doable. But time is fast running out. Rome is burning. Choosing which fiddler should play (because the ‘other one’ is so deplorable, apparently) seems to be the most important consideration. I think that’s where we are. So wishing the fire away or hoping everyone could just wake up, understand the danger, and get to work together I don’t think helps put it out.

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          1. So you’re basically saying that anyone who wants to see people advanced needs to just give that up, because even though the ones who don’t want that are the numerical minority, they’re just going to fold their arms, not vote or vote harmfully so that everything burns down, because they don’t like what the majority wants?
            Maybe those in the minority might reach out, give an item or two a try, and then decide if we the people’s ideas are so bad.
            Maybe you’ll notice that I didn’t ask for everything, I asked for one or two little items that will help all (not just some.) Are you and I now hopelessly divided because I’m too liberal for you?
            That was sort of my point. I’d rather work together.
            Thanks for this! I haven’t had a good discussion in a long time, either for not wanting to hurt feelings, or not wanting to seem like I’m trolling because I just disagree. This has been great.

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            1. Ali, I’m a liberal. My principles are based on classical liberalism. So when you imply that people are ‘advanced’ in this ‘progressive’ movement, I honestly have no clue what your use of the term ‘advanced’ means. Do you think today’s ‘progressive’ issues advance the health and welfare of real people in real life? Do you honestly believe these policies promote inclusion and common interests?

              Reality shows us a very stark difference between this belief and real world effects.

              Liberalism that maintains its core principles has a very strong historical record of ‘advancing’ people by raising the tide, so to speak, in every area of human wellbeing through equality rights and freedoms based on respect for the individual in law. That tide still has a ways to go, sure, but it IS rising. That’s the whole meaning behind forming ‘a more perfect union’. It’s a verb, a process, an evolution. Today’s version of ‘progressive’, however, achieves exactly the opposite effect and does so by stealing and then using liberal terms but meaning their opposite, to pull down the whole liberal structure and replace it with a group-based power structure hierarchy. (We already have a name for this kind of model and a long historical track record of its destructive effect on real people in real life.)

              For example, ‘tolerance’ now means intolerance against members of dominant groups and of ideologies, people, and perspectives that disagree with Critical Social Justice AND absolute tolerance for the ideologies, people, and perspectives of those who promote it. This is not liberal. It’s anti-liberal and regressive in effect.

              ‘Diversity’ now means a focus on physical and cultural differences, differences that are evaluated according to the Critical Social Justice conceptions of privilege and marginalization. Diversity policies, therefore, privilege the marginalized and marginalize the privileged. This is not liberal. It’s anti-liberal and regressive in effect.

              ‘Equity’ now means inequality based on giving some identity groups privileges in order to redress perceived imbalances. This is not liberal. It’s anti-liberal and regressive in effect.

              I could go on and on and on about how the linguistic capture by ‘progressive’ ideologues has and is killing liberalism, killing equality rights, undermining legal respect for the individual in law. That’s what ‘progressive’ policies are MEANT to accomplish: it lowers the tide for everyone in the name of ‘Social Justice’. This is a very real problem in a liberal democracy. Conflict is inevitable BECAUSE it is intentional. That’s the point.

              So when children are being indoctrinated in public education (and I was professionally trained to be just such an indoctrinator and so I know first hand what this ideology embedded in curriculum and in the Teacher’s Colleges looks like in practice in the classroom with real children), real parents have real concerns about this reframing of the world into a group-based fictitious identity environment that creates and promotes division, privileges and punishments, and teaches kids to believe in an alternate reality made up of people of different group identities rather than a shared individual-based meritorious environment that respects what’s true and knowable. Instead, we get language that tries to alter reality by definition. And so we get policies that then when acted upon dismantles liberalism.

              None of this ‘advances’ anything except the ideological bulldozing of liberal democracy with mob rule. It does this by convincing liberals that anti-liberal deeply divisive policies that cause real harm to real people in real life is ‘justice’ for the ‘oppressed’. It’s not just. It’s injustice imposed on us all. Changing the meaning of these liberal terms does not advance people at all but attempts to turn all of us into cogs of our imposed identity groups. That’s why known harm caused by the practices of the ideology can be waved away by the ideologues of this ‘progressive’ ideology as mere complaints of ‘right-wing’, ‘evangelical’, ‘bigoted’, ‘hateful’, ‘transphobic’, islamophobic, ‘TERFS’.

              To prove the point, ANY criticism of this anti-liberal ‘progressive’ ideology will not be tolerated. Under any circumstances. No amount of expertise counts. No personal ‘lived experience’ counts. You see this constantly from Scottie, for example: absolute impervious intolerance to any criticism of how these policies cause preventable harm. Doesn’t happen but, if it does, it’s always the fault of the ‘traditionalist’ (that is to say, the REAL liberal). And it is ALWAYS the fault of the person raising the concern who by definition must be misinformed and whose motives must be less than pure. In other words, blasphemy has no redeeming quality, and the person saying it no redeemable character until they are born again in righteousness… umm I mean until they become ‘allies’ and have ‘done the work’.

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              1. Hello Tildeb. You may call yourself a liberal but every position you promote here and every talking point you use as an example of your point is from a right wing point of view. There is no difference between what you say in the comments than what republicans are saying everywhere. Even your attacks on progressives are the same as Fox hosts and other right wing media. So I don’t put much stock in your assertions.

                Policies do bring people together. There have been studies done that show if you ask people a question about progressive or liberal policies with no party identifier, they support the policy or issue. But when you ask the same question with the party identifier on it, they reject the issue. So the policies are not the problem, but the party tribalism is.

                Every attempt by progressives to help the public has been fought by the right and even those that are center. The center simply wants no change, the right wants things to be restrictive for some groups or things allowed, and the progressives want things better for the public. Those are the facts. Hugs

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                1. Scottie, liberalism isn’t partisan. It’s not a left and right wing notion. YOU are the one assigning the fundamental tenets of liberalism it to be ‘right wing’ whenever they are in conflict with ‘progressive’ ideology in exactly the same way human impulses are considered ‘sinful’ if it conflicts with religious ideology. You are trying to steal the concept of being liberal to being supportive of only extreme left wing Marxist ideology called ‘progressive’ and everything else as ‘right wing’. I am liberal to the core. You are not.

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                2. Hello Tildeb. Here is the definition of liberal. In the US system is sure as shit is partisan.

                  willing to respect or accept behavior or opinions different from one’s own; open to new ideas.
                  2.
                  relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise.
                  Similar:
                  tolerant
                  unprejudiced
                  unbigoted
                  broad-minded
                  open-minded
                  enlightened
                  forbearing
                  permissive
                  free
                  free and easy
                  easygoing
                  laissez-faire
                  libertarian
                  latitudinarian
                  unbiased
                  impartial
                  nonpartisan
                  indulgent
                  lenient
                  lax
                  soft
                  Opposite:
                  narrow-minded
                  bigoted
                  noun
                  1.
                  a supporter of policies that are socially progressive and promote social welfare.
                  2.
                  a supporter of a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise.

                  You are not liberal by the definition. Hugs

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              2. Hi!
                See, I understand perfectly about you being traditionally liberal, right up until the very broad brush you use to paint whoever you’re discussing as fringe or anti-liberal, or progressive. I want a UBI, full health care coverage for all paid for with our tax dollars. I’ve felt that way since before I got pregnant over 25 years ago, and feel more strongly so now. I want other things, like enough food for everyone to eat under a roof where they’re safe to sleep. I don’t get what’s harmful about that. I don’t want to take health care or housing or food away from anyone to give it to someone else; we have plenty for all. I don’t get where we’re harmful.
                I see the term TERFS above, and while I will go to the bathroom with almost anyone at all getting a hassle about where they’re headed, that includes you. I can’t explain why these wars over trans people have to happen, but I’d like to get the gap bridged. There’s a lot of words about it out there.
                I read you’ve worked in schools where you had to teach things you disapprove of. I’ve been in public schools for decades. I volunteered, including running 2 Book Fairs a year, never saw anything like what you had to do. Later, I volunteered then was hired (I know; not a liberal thing to do, but the work is rewarding) I worked in a classroom one year, but mostly after school, where we were way more free with enrichment material and time. Never saw any of this stuff anywhere, and much like anywhere else working with kids, we weren’t allowed to discuss anything at all with the students whether they had questions or not. We had to refer to school admin and/or parents. We absolutely had to report any abuse of any sort, up the chain. Now, I’m not saying you didn’t have to do what you wrote; I know each district is different. Our district isn’t too enlightened these days; I think they took Jack London out of circulation. Anyway, the entire time our son was in school there was plenty about 9/11, not much about anybody but MLK Jr., and only because they didn’t close school for his birthday.
                I’m sorry you’ve had bad run-ins with Bernie Bros and other activists; it’s reading like you sorta did. They don’t represent progressivism, liberalism, or most of us who are Dems. They’re a—–s. I wish we could kick them out, but, hey. It’s the US, and many of the rest of us keep hoping we’ll rub off on them, sooner or later. Meanwhile, ignore them, they’ll ignore you.
                It does seem like, after getting past some bad experiences with someone who’s called themselves progressive, you and I could work together for greater good on lots of stuff. I’d like to see that happen. Just my .02.

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                1. I’m sure we could work together, Ali because I think we both want the same thing especially for kids. Unlike many people, I have deep respect, very productive conversations, and lifelong relationships with family and friends who tell me why they vote Republican. When one doesn’t have this insight from very smart, highly educated, successful professional people as well as business owners and tradespeople, it can be a complete mystery why anyone in their right mind would vote Republican (and the same is true for many Republican voters regarding the insanity of the Democrats!). This is to be expected when most people are inundated not by good journalism but by narrative – left or right. So it’s not easy or convenient to find out these different viewpoints unless one is dedicated to respecting what’s true as a goal, of being truthful, being willing to listen to others without rushing to judgement, having the ability to put aside one’s own biases and opinions first (as best as we can) and THEN delving into the likelihood of something being the case. This is made very difficult when one’s allegiance is often the first consideration and reputation is at stake.

                  For example, sometimes it’s hard to understand why the trans issue matters so much and how it is always women who must yield space and rights and access to these men. Every time. Yet who cares about bathrooms, for example, when everyone has to use them. Well, because when a person self identifies as this or that, no one cares… right up until that person insists YOU must affirm them and then YOU must give up sex segregated spaces – bathrooms, changerooms, women’s shelters, prisons – for the feelings of ONE man. His feelings by law now trumps all women’s feelings and safety to accommodate. That makes the trans issue impelled affirmation. And that’s not fair because it’s not true: males cannot self identify themselves into biological females IN REALITY. So to help explain why this compelling is anti-liberal, if it helps at all, I suggest reading and understanding this essay. I think she does a good job explaining the liberal principle that you are free to swing your fists right up until they connect with my nose and how gender ‘affirmation’ is connecting with all our noses. That’s why it matters.

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                2. Well, I’m sorry you’re in a position to feel forced, especially about accepting more women. More women, more power, is how I see it, but everyone’s mileage differs, as you say. No matter how much I read such things, I cannot grasp how people feel forced to accept other people as who they are-fellow travellers. But, that’s just me. I hope that soon, there will be a safe space for women who, like you, feel forced to accept something they aren’t getting; to maybe do some reading and listening (especially the listening) to those they’re having trouble with, along with being listened to by those same. Again, maybe one day.

                  Liked by 1 person

                3. My feelings in this matter are a true reflection of reality: a male can enter a female only space by simply stating he identifies as female and this by law is then IMPOSED on every female without their consent. The fist has hit the nose. That’s not right. And it most definitely is not liberal. This is a ‘Thou Shalt’ kind of rule from above. And every time trans ‘rights’ advances in the name of social justice progress, females must retreat. Funny how that works, isn’t it?

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                4. Well, where do you live?
                  Maybe another place would be better. For example, that is not happening at all in KS, or surrounding states (quite the opposite, in much of KS; locally controlled.) It’s an idea!

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                5. Hello Tildeb. Will you stop lying. Please! It is a right wing trope, and something that the TERF love to push. Men are not just walking into places where they might see nude women claiming to be trans. Have you not heard of the internet. I can see all the nude women I want without even leaving my chair.

                  The idea is that men are just looking to enter female spaces. Stupid.

                  There is nothing stopping men from doing that now as non-trans men. Dogs that love gravy you are so full of the right wing talking points it pisses me off to have to address them.

                  Never has there been a case of a real trans person assaulting a person in any bathroom or locker room. If you disagree with that show me.

                  In every case that has been documented biological women have been assaulted by right wing warriors protecting bathrooms because they go on looks and someone did not look feminine enough for them. And that is the point, all of these right wing protect the women in bathrooms people go on is a person’s looks. Well guess what some women look like men and the other way round.

                  I am really tired of the tropes, show evidence of your issues please. Hugs

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                6. Loudoun County, Virginia. There was also a coverup by the school administration and the Board. And, just like the Catholic Church with its pedophile priests, the ‘solution’ was to transfer the student responsible. Out of sight, out of mind. Of course, imagine the shock that the guy did this again at his new school. But hey, why should anyone be concerned when it’s only females paying this price? Aren’t they expected to yield to the ‘feelings’ of males who wish to identify differently than their biology? What could possibly go wrong with such a ‘progressive’ policy? All harm, I guess, rightly belongs ONLY to those who might disagree with imposing these feelings on females. You know, for cause. Such right wing bigots.

                  According to local reporting, the father of one of the victims reported the male student forcibly sodomized his ninth-grade daughter in a school bathroom while wearing a skirt. When the outraged father attempted to describe and protest the incident at a local school-board meeting, he was arrested for disorderly conduct, allowing the sexual abuse to stay underground for months. After the assault, the perpetrator was transferred to another school where he allegedly assaulted a second female student in early October in 2021.

                  In fact, we know that transitioned males maintain similar patterns of violence as other males which, when it comes to sexual violence, is about 99 times that of females. Yet we keep putting males identifying as women into female only prisons and bathrooms and changerooms and rape centers and then seem genuinely surprised when rapes and sexual assaults result… right up to the point of some California prisons handing out RU486 medication weekly. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along. Just women being women, donchaknow.

                  Come on, Scottie. None of this is a surprise. It would be surprising to those of us in the real world of men and women if rates of male violence actually declined after transitioning. Unfortunately, they don’t. Bummer.

                  Liked by 1 person

                7. Hello Tildeb. I wondered when you would bring up this case. Did you do your research first? You should have.

                  See the boy was not trans! Not at all. He said he wore the skirt because it was easier to have quick sex. The girl he forced sex on in the first case was someone he had sex with multiple times in the bathrooms. This time after they met and started, she wanted to stop. He was upset about that and wanted to keep going. He was wrong, and he clearly was not taught that at any time a person can remove consent. He was clearly not given any good sexual education or he was a predator. Was the school wrong to just transfer him with no precautions, I think so, but they had to deal with the legal situation also. But this has nothing to do with trans kids and bathrooms. He never claimed to be trans, he never tried to live as a girl, he was totally cis.

                  Now lets talk about why the father was arrested. He was not arrested as he wanted to claim because he was protecting his daughter and all the other girls. He was warned repeatedly that due to the legal system and what was going on he couldn’t name the boy nor make claims of what he asserts had happened along with threats against the boy. He refused to follow the rules and got ever more belligerent, so he was arrested.

                  You are so predictable now Tildeb. What a waste of time. Trans people are not assaulting anyone in bathrooms. They are the ones assaulted in bathrooms. Trans people just want to use the facilities. I did study the case because I was sure anti-trans people like you would grab it to bash trans people, but the boy was not trans. He wore the skirt because it was better to have quick sex. Hugs

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        2. Hello Ali. Great points. When it comes to rights and what is allowed it should be biased too more rather than less. The standard should be that restricting things should be done when there is harm to another, or consent is not given. The system we have now is the opposite, it is the granting of rights. Rights should be assumed until restricted is a better way to look at it. Hugs

          Liked by 1 person

          1. Scottie, you write, ” The standard should be that restricting things should be done when there is harm to another, or consent is not given.”

            My jaw is still on the floor because THIS is what is lacking in affirmation-only medical mandates: ANY concern whatsoever about harm caused. If that very standard you espouse here were in place for kids – especially the consent part – we wouldn’t have children being subject to developmental retardation, chemical castration, or hormonal experimentation in the name of aligning ‘gender identity’. (And let us not forget, no one to this minute anywhere on this planet has any clue what that term ‘gender’ means in reality, a ‘condition’ that is receiving these physical and chemical interventions. It ain’t ‘gender’ being changed: it’s biology being manipulated.)

            Liked by 1 person

            1. Hello Tildeb. Again you twist things. The harm and damage is trying to prevent gender transitioning or denying trans kids exists. The supreme harm is conversion therapy that tries to force kids to accept and stay in a gender they do not identify with.

              You are playing a game, you know kids / minors need parental approval to have medical assistance for anything. Kids cannot even have a doctor’s appointment without parental approval and someone paying for it.

              The rest of your comment is crap. Kids are not being subject to chemical castration, or hormonal experimentation, but thanks for sharing the right wing media talking points. You sure you want to keep saying your a liberal?

              Accept that the majority of medical associations support gender transitioning and the current treatment for kids. When you get your medical license and become a medical researcher come back with your conclusions.

              Why do you push things that are incorrect? We know and understand what gender is. Gender is a social construct for internal identity. So very simple. Hugs

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              1. “You are playing a game, you know kids / minors need parental approval to have medical assistance for anything.”
                Either you don’t know kids or your naivety is very deep. Tee is easy to get online. Puberty blockers ARE what is used in chemical castration. And there are zero long term studies on the effects of blocking children’s development with these ‘medications’ other than we know it damages bones, retards brain growth, and causes heart issues. This is not inaccurate. And gaining ‘medical assistance’ is assured BECAUSE in the countries that have implemented the WPATH and MERMAID ‘recommendations’ that’s what ‘affirmation only’ is guaranteed to produce based on a child’s say so alone. Parents have no veto authority.

                When anything contrary to this is considered ‘conversion therapy’, is it any wonder parents concerned for their children’s health and welfare will vote for anyone who stands against this? This is what DeSantis is tapping into, and it is a LEGITIMATE concern for many parents, Scottie.

                Now, I know you’ll double down here and claim all of this is made up and full of right wing disinformation and I’m a right wing bigot spreading lies and deceit and full of hatred and so on, but the point you’re missing – the point you absolutely REFUSE to grant any legitimacy – is that these kind of ‘progressive’ policies that cause real harm to real children in real life (just listen to detransitioners and the ease at which they received whatever treatment they wanted) is supported and promoted by the Democrats which is what is pushing many voters like concerned parents away and into the waiting arms of the Republicans. That legitimate concern is what DeSantis is using. You are absolutely cemented to refusing to admit any of this is in any way a problem of the Democrat’s making and to disagree makes one into a right wing bigot and or ally of ‘those’ terrible people. I can tell you, whether you hear it or not, that many are just concerned parents. And you’re telling them in effect they’re terrible people for doing so, for understanding far better than you what the real world threat is to their children.

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                1. Hello Tildeb. Again you twist things. Oh my dog that loves gravy they are used to stop the sex drive! That is what chemical castration is, a stopping of the sex drive. It is not the destroying of the testes They are one of several drugs that can be used. And guess what, they are also used for testicular cancer. They are used for a lot of things. And they are reversable. One reason that a lot of places won’t use them for chemical castration. Oh be afraid, be very afraid. The right wing refrain.

                  I am so tired of the lies and bullshit. You cannot deal with the truth that puberty blockers have the approval of most medical associations and so you have to twist information to fit your anti-trans feelings.

                  But that doesn’t address what I wrote. Kids need parental approval to access any medical treatment or a judge has to rule for it. See how you tried to switch the conversation and confuse everyone. You went from a fact to a myth as if it was an answer.

                  Again you make these claims that are not supported by the majority of medical associations. Shall we also list how Covid vaccines are installing chips to turn us into zombies, and that vaccines cause autism?

                  I am tired of the lies Tildeb!

                  No country is going to let a kid walk in and say I am a different gender change me and then do it. They would have to be the age of maturity in that country. Terf island England had that fight recently where 16 year olds who are considered adults were temporarily restricted from making their own medical decisions on this issue. You know this as you pointed it out to me.

                  Tildeb just admit you are a strong anti-transphobe. Be honest about where you’re coming from so people don’t think you are a liberal asking questions. I have seen your attacks on Breitbart even.

                  You use the anger of a small minority pandered to by politicians with far too much ego and ambition as evidence while ignoring accepted medical science on treatment. Yes religious people who claim there are only two genders are going to be upset, they’re wrong and basing their knowledge on writings from 2.500 years ago. We learned a bunch since then. The same with the maga crowd who want things as they were back in the 1950s. Again sorry but the world moved on. There were people wanting to go back to before slaves were free, before women had the vote, the world moves on as understandings improve. This anti-trans bull is the same thing.

                  Every argument is just a rehash of we must return to the past. A really great argument for a “liberal” to be making.

                  Any parent is concerned when their child has an issue, but they listen to their doctors unless they go with their religious convictions or their politically motived ones. We have been watching this same thing play out with being gay and the conversion therapy issue. You are not plowing new ground but using the same tired old scare tactics with something that is new to society. But it is not new to the medical community. Trust them instead of your conspiracy shit.

                  Then you go on a rant about stuff debunked.

                  Yes I will double down. You have not proved your point. You have been proven wrong. You know what, you have a blog. Write all the right wing disinformation and misleading anti-trans stuff there. It won’t fly here with me. Your last paragraph was a rehash of every right wing talking point I hear. Oh but you’re a liberal. The doctors disagree with you. Hell the majority of the population in the US and the advanced countries in the world disagree with you, yet you still try so very hard to push this misinformation, bigotry, and hate. You push the idea that 2.4% detransitioners are more important than 97.6% of those that are happy with their transition. See the problem, you go with the idea that 2.4 is more than 97.6. Yet you are a liberal. You talk mostly about the US but claim to be from Canada. The fact is you’re the minority in the advanced countries. But it is easier to sow discontent in the US isn’t it? But as we have seen with the right of a woman to control her body in the US keep pushing, you may win and screw trans kids up for a long time.

                  One last thing. Understand me very clearly as I want no mistake. I see you as someone arguing against the equality of black people and the equality of gay people. This is the same thing and you are using arguments used by those who blamed the democrats for opening schools to black kids. Yes you are. And yes it cost the democrats votes to champion the equality of black people. But it was the right damn thing to do. It is also the right thing to champion the rights of trans people and the rights of trans kids to the proper medical treatment. Hugs

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            2. Who TF wants any affirmation-only medical mandates, at all? I’m sorry; I need real proof that exists, like state laws. Do you think, maybe, it’s like the “death panels” we heard about with “Obamacare?” You know; the ones that don’t exist as threatened? (Meanwhile, who’s actually given us true, existing panels that would qualify as death panels? Not Dems.)

              This is what I meant earlier about the broad brush. I don’t know where you’ve gotten this info, but it isn’t accurate in any US state. Unless I see the evidence of such laws, when I will concede and apologize. I need to see state statutes, or medical guidelines within state statutes. Else, it isn’t happening.

              Liked by 1 person

              1. Who wants affirmation only mandates? The transactivist community and their (deeply misguided, I think) collaborators who may or may not know what they are actually supporting but thinking well of themselves for doing so. The policy is ubiquitous in all American medical overseeing bodies. It often goes under the name of GAT (gender-affirming therapy) and often references guidelines put out by the Endocrinology Society and WPATH, both of which are captured by transactivists (just like the Southern Poverty Center and American Civil Liberties Union). It’s not a coincidence these bodies all have transitioned men in leadership positions on them. This article helps understand just how deeply the affirmation only approach has spread. In Canada, form example, one risks a 5 year jail term if one does not follow GAT guidelines (even though age of consent varies from province to province and has been lowered in the specific case of ‘gender dysphoria’ to what in effect allows patients of any age to determine GAT medical treatment). Literally everything else, every other avenue of not implementing GAT, is considered conversion therapy and illegal.

                So, the result of this is to turn medicine regarding ‘gender dysphoria’ once again (like abortion) into a political football that then invites laws. In Canada, it turns medicine into an ideological tool; in the States, it makes legislatures into medical colleges. This is inevitable when ideologies capture oversight bodies and activists then try to use them to further their own preferred agenda. This is why so many US States are passing legislation to curtail this specific ideological expansion about ‘gender’ generally and ‘gender dysphoria’ specifically. The reason is because it GAINS political support not from wing nuts and extremists but from a significant chunk of liberal voters from BOTH sides of the political divide who actually care about the health and welfare of children being medicalized for life.

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                1. Hello Teldeb. Let us cut to the heart of the matter. The majority of medical associations say the best treatment practices for trans kids are as they exist now. Kids get evaluated, have full medical work ups including emotional, mental, physical, and even their home environments, then they are assisted to socially transition. If they are at or nearing puberty, they are evaluated for puberty blockers, then when they are older or reach the age of adulthood they are evaluated for medical transitioning including hormone therapy or surgery. This is the medically accepted best practice that anti-trans people like yourself are trying to prevent.

                  Everything else you have presented is a falsehood and debunked scare tactic. It is the equivalent of being an anti-vaccine crusader. It is the same as people who claimed and some still do that no one is really born gay they are just rebelling, or it is a fad. God never makes a mistake. I have heard all this before. You are repeating all the same misinformation that happens anytime society realizes a new understanding.

                  Why so many states in the US are passing anti-trans treatment laws is easy to understand. Red states are the only ones doing it. Again you are promoting right wing talking points. Red states that have republicans trying to appeal to the hateful bigoted minority that is needed by them to win republican primaries. Dogs that love gravy that is the most easy thing to see. It is hateful politicians pandering to an even more hateful base.

                  Are you sure you still want to claim to be a liberal? Hugs

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                2. Perhaps this will wake you up:

                  The line that generated the most applause (at the CPAC convention in Texas when Orban was delivering the keynote speech) was not that Hungary was “the first in Europe to say no to illegal migration and to stop the invasion of illegal migrants.” Nope. The line that made the room erupt in applause, hooting, and hollering, and a standing ovation was “The mother is a woman, the father is a man, and leave our kids alone. Full stop, end of discussion.”

                  No matter how much you want to pin this sentiment only on bigots and white supremacists, I’m telling you that this aligns perfectly with my Canadian doctor friend in charge of 5 hospital ERs in Mississippi: the Democrats are killing their chances at reelection by really pissing off parents with this bullshit and then pointing the finger of blame everywhere else but where it belongs. DeSantis is smart enough to harness this anger that the Democrats are intentionally creating.

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                3. Wow Tildeb, now you are trumpeting Orban? Really and still want to stand as a liberal. Just wow.

                  But let’s do this because you insist.

                  Orban was saying before this that immigrants were lesser. Something that the US right believes. It seems you agree with it. It is wrong. Just because they were not lucky enough to be born in … `what country do you want to put here? … doesn’t mean they are a lesser people.

                  Again are you a liberal as you claim?

                  No matter how much you want to pin this sentiment only on bigots and white supremacists, I’m telling you that this aligns perfectly with my Canadian doctor friend in charge of 5 hospital ERs in Mississippi:,

                  Are you fucken serious Tildeb? You are championing the dictator Orban! My dogs that love gravy I am so angry. You have just lost any credibility you had with me.

                  Yes it is bigots and white supremacist that he appeals to and that love him, and again you show your total right wing roots with this guy who is a hero of Tucker Calrson.

                  But we were to listen to you the democrats would give up human rights and move right, then even more right to suddenly be where the republicans would vote for them. But if the Democrats were moving that far right why wouldn’t the republicans simply vote for the full republicans? See why it doesn’t make sense.

                  So let me be clear this is bigotry out right and clear. You think this is a triumph. Stupid. I am reposting that part of your comment to show really what / who you are. You support this below.

                  The line that made the room erupt in applause, hooting, and hollering, and a standing ovation was “The mother is a woman, the father is a man, and leave our kids alone. Full stop, end of discussion.”

                  This is the retrograde regressive view that you seem to support. Well those of us truly on the left or liberal cannot agree with you on that. Again this is pure bigotry. I don’t think my viewers need me to break it down but in case they do I will.

                  If you subscribe to the above, then you disregard a lot of the families in the US including single families and many same sex families. There are families of single parents of either sex, there are families of different sex, there are families of the same gender / sex, there are families of poly families. Do I need to continue, the fact is there are more types of families than can be listed but the important thing is the kids in those families know they are loved and accepted. Hugs

                  Oh and you have just shown yourself to be the right wing troll I often thought you were. Hugs

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                4. Again, your comprehension skills are lacking. My point was that this parental anger that DeSantis is tapping into is REAL. It is fuel for the Republicans to use. And it is made by Democrats blindly and stupidly going along with ‘gender identity’ bullshit and imposing this ‘progressive’ view on children and indoctrinating them into thinking it’s true. Just like evnagelicals do to their children in matters of religious faith of the parents. My point – because you seem determined to miss it and the ignore any legitimacy it raises – is that this parental anger was the most dominant feature at the CPAC convention. In other words, the anger is not a figment of my bigoted imagination as you keep trying to present it. Orban is an anti-liberal democrat I hold in utter contempt. But he, too, taps into this anger both at home and abroad. It’s real. And it’s justified. His speech proves it by the audience response (not that you noticed). And, yet again and just like clockwork, you presume your beliefs reveal the ‘truth’ wherever you cast your ideological eyes. And then you go straight to vilifying the person – me, in this case – who raises a legitimate point of evidence from reality. Not to allow any good deed to go unpunished, you then smear me as if I were a supporter of Orban who agrees with his anti-liberal policies! Get a grip.

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                5. Hello Tildeb. It is the real anger of a small minority. Can you not understand that point. The rest of the people don’t agree with that anger. Just like the hate preachers are a small minority in the Christian communities. They are loud and very aggressive, but they are not the majority and shouldn’t be treated that way. The Republicans are a minority, their maga group is a minority in that minority. Florida is very accepting of the LGBTQ+ but for the small gang of thugs. But because DeathSantis is pour as much gas as possible on their fire it is a roaring blaze it seems.

                  You want to act like they are the majority to prove your points. You are wrong. Also we don’t reward them by giving in to them. Yes you would love that. But that is because you share their views. Understand the fact is that the majority of people accept LGBTQ+ including trans people, the majority of democrats do. You imply the democrats should change their positions / views to be more like republicans because a small group of republicans are hateful racist bigots. No, just no!

                  If the democrats did that they would not be democrats, would they? They would be republicans. What you are saying is democrats should be republicans, so some republicans won’t be angry at the changes happening in society. Hey let’s not free the slaves as the racist will be angry. Lets not tolerate marriage equality because religious hate preachers don’t like it.

                  Do you always give in to the minority and go repressive Tildeb? Why don’t you tell the republicans to grow up and move into the modern age? Why not tell the right to accept the LGBTQ+? Because you are one of the right wing haters judging on what you write. Brian Brown has made a living out of trying to stop and now trying to repeal same sex marriage. He claimed that horrible things like people marrying dogs would happen and a bunch of other hateful things because god hates the gays. Should we just give up because some people follow and support him?

                  The solution to bigotry is not to accept the bigotry and give into it. That is what you are trying say we should do. But it is not going to happen. I did not fight for 50 years to be accepted as an openly gay married man to another man to give into the current haters. Hugs

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                6. Well, it’s a not a non sequitur insofar as these particular surgeons who do these particular surgeries think of it as a ‘progressive’ version of ‘acceptable’ female genital mutilation. I’m referring to the ‘harm’ reduction element you try to portray as central to your beliefs when, in fact, you seem unwilling to acknowledge any harm at all if the harm caused in real life doesn’t support your beliefs! That’s why I think you ignore literally hundreds of testimonials about just this kind of permanent harm by girls who have gone through transitioning in the name of correcting their ‘gender identity’ through surgeries and then changed their minds when reality inserted itself back into their daily lives. Oh look – they WERE born into the ‘right’ bodies after all! Who could have foreseen this unless they were right wing bigots? I don;t know… maybe parents? Just spitballin’ here…

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                7. Oh for dogs that love gravy Tildeb. Tildeb you missed the point that female genital mutilation done on little girls is a far cry from sexual reassignment surgery. You might was well call rhinoplasty mutilation and boob enlargements a crime against women.

                  Again with the harm to girls that detransition. 2 out of 100! That is the number. And that includes all trans boys and girls, so the real number of girls is less. So 1 girl out of 100 is upset and screaming it was wrong. The other 98 trans people are happy and glad. Get it into your head the minority of people that have regrets do not mean the majority must give up their rights to be able to transition. Understand we don’t stop 98 people from eating because 2 people are on a diet. What about this is so hard for you to understand that you keep repeating the same crap? I really don’t want to have to address that again. Understand! It is a waste of my time and it is starting to make me think that along with being a jerk right wing you’re a troll.

                  One LAST time kids are not just waking up claiming to be a different gender and rushed to the nearest sex change clinic to get their bodies surgically reassigned. That is not the best medical practice that is prescribed for trans kids, nor the accepted practice. There are years of steps even for older kids. You had Nan questioning if the kids were getting counseling first, and yes they are given complete medical work ups including mental, emotional, and physical. They must live as that gender for at least a year before any hormone therapy. But you must know all this as we have gone over it. Stop the lying on this issue. Take your hate elsewhere. I am getting tired of repeating myself! Scottie

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                8. Hello Tildeb. Nope, not when you are acting like a jerk and an asshole by repeating the same things we already discussed and forcing me to type out the same information over and over. You don’t like trans people, I get it. That is your right. But you don’t have the right to come here and constantly lie and repeat those same lies over and over. At some point you have to quit chewing the bone. You had your say. You don’t like I disagree and that I don’t accept your lies as truth. But to keep going on and on and on and on and one with the same lies is tiring and stupid. You want to put your lies up, you have a blog, do it there. Scottie

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                9. That’s like a creationist saying to someone who understands why evolution is true that all they do is keep telling lies by introducing more and more and more evidence contrary to the creationist belief. Of course I’m going to take that approach because I respect reality enough to let it – and not your ideological framing of it, nor the linguistic takeover to try to make it sound reasonable – arbitrate my beliefs about it. In your frame, that makes me a right wing bigot spewing lies and disinformation.

                  And this is exactly the problem the west faces with this hostile takeover of reality by ‘progressive’ ideology; Orwell describes it in 1984: “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.” I think you are True Believer and so the dogma you keep throwing up needs to be challenged by someone not afraid to be called a right wing bigot just because I respect reality, seek the truth, and am willing to be honest about it. If that loses me your hugs, so be it. But in the decades to come you will reflect on this time period and be ashamed at supporting a bigoted and highly discriminatory fascist ideology.

                  The difference between us, however, is I realize you’ve fooled yourself and I sincerely hope that’s something you can rectify eventually because I will continue to insist your heart is in the right place. In contrast, you think I am a Very Bad Person morally corrupt and bigoted because I refuse to bend the knee when I know what you’re supporting is so pernicious and in so many ways, not least of which is turning the person you used to be into this current intolerance version. That in itself should be reason enough to call into question the line of thinking you’ve taken because you should recognize in yourself the identical intransigence of religious True Believers clutch, the same need to be a Guardian of the Faith of what they think is virtuous belief that you’ve copied, and the identical use of the warped moral standard you use to dismiss anyone and any thing (the new ‘approved’ language is a dead giveaway) that challenges the purity of your beliefs or your dedication to it. Including chastising Nan for not going along with your position. I mean, come on. All of this should ring a bell somewhere deep in your brain that something in there isn’t quite right. I have confidence you will eventually break free of this delusional enchantment.

                  Hugs.

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                10. Wow Tildeb. How delusional of you. Like most of the right wing everything you say is projection. You can reverse everything you said about me and that is how I feel about you. The thing I found most funny is your claim to respect reality. I use real peer reviewed data and you push myths and anecdotes. Fine. Well you have had your say, I am always fair about that. I think we have beaten this thread to hell and back so see you on the next post you decide to comment on. Hugs

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                11. You’re no longer rational on this subject, Scottie. You are certain you are right when in reality there’s lots of reasons to question and doubt and want to err on the side of caution. Even that much that Nan has suggested is in your mind spouting disinformation and right wing bigotry. Nan, no less. Maybe your brain can no longer perceive the redness of the flags you keep erecting in defence of your faith in ‘progressive’ ideology.

                  The latest idiocy was from Turban assuring everyone (with truly terrible methodology highly criticized even by gender affirming clinicians) that there’s no such thing as sudden onset gender dysphoria. This is so laughably not true that it stands in direct conflict with gender clinics hard data about increasing numbers year over year. So perhaps a more nuanced approach might help explain what’s going on here… aptly called American Denialism.

                  Just like any good creationist denying reality’s support of evolution, I think you are forced to engage with the same kind of denying of reality’s support of conflicting evidence so you are left with vilifying those who raise it. Your version of me does not exist in reality but I also know that’s the only version your faith-based beliefs will permit.

                  Hugs.

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                12. Hello Teleb. I am totally rational, but I don’t tolerate hate and discrimination. I don’t mind honest questions, and I am willing to do the hard work of researching the issues. I don’t like hater but I tolerate people saying they hate someone or something. What I am damn tired of is addressing the same things repeatedly with you. As I said in the last reply to you, at some point you have to just stop chewing the same bone. You repeat the same right wing talking point, I debunk it. You bring up another right wing talking point and I debunk that. Then you go back and repeat the first right wing talking point. And you will do this for days. Day two is a rehash of day one, day three is a rehash of day two. That kind of crap is not informative, is not educational, and seriously is not fun.

                  Tildeb there is nothing wrong with always trying to refine and improve best practices treatments. But that is not what you are trying to achieve, and it is disingenuous to suggest that you are. You are trying to stop the transition of young trans people in the wrong body for their gender. You are trying to prevent medical care for them, and you are trying to sabotage their acceptance in the public. It is insidious for you to claim that you are just questioning. You are actively working against trans rights and the social / medical transitioning of minors.

                  Nan is honestly questioning and not actively working against trans people / kids. That is fine, she is learning. She doesn’t feel comfortable with it. I don’t mind having a conversation with her on trans issues. But again, that is not what you are doing. And she doesn’t push the same debunked point every comment or reply.

                  See how you love to twist things. You think that because there are more people / kids coming out as trans that somehow it is a fad or peer pressure causing a sudden increase in trans people. Like a kid just wakes up on day at 9 years old and says hey let me change my whole life and lose friends because that other person is trans. Social contagion. But the increase is in OUT people because people feel more comfortable letting others know how they feel and that they understand they can have medical assistance for transitioning. I heard that same argument about somehow teaching sex ed in schools was making more kids gay and that teachers were creating more gay kids. Nope. More kids felt safe to come out. More kids were willing to admit they were gay because they knew they wouldn’t be targeted for abuse. That is a good thing, so the republicans are trying to kill. It is just another way to make the claim that kids don’t know they’re in the wrong body or that it is not a serious issue, but something done as a lark. Wrong.

                  You claim I am denying reality but in truth you are. Trans kids exist, the major medical associations say that helping trans kids to transition is the best practices. You cannot deny that, so like Covid deniers you go with fringe medical providers and those who don’t know what they are talking about for your information. You push myths that have no data to back them up. You claim victims that don’t exist. You are wrong on this issue.

                  I base what I think of you on what you write and how you act on the issue. You say the I am wrong. You say I am acting “religiously” on the subject. But again I use facts supported by the data. Again I use your own words to form my opinion of you. You use right wing talking points, you use the same anti-trans hate mongering that Fox hosts do, you use the same anti-discrimination hurts the white person arguments of Tucker Carlson, so why wouldn’t I assume you are right wing? You keep pushing the debunked myths like you are paid to do so or it is your personal cause that will get you into heaven. You might want to rethink that.

                  At least this time you had a new talking point I could debunk. Hugs

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                13. ” You are trying to stop the transition of young trans people in the wrong body for their gender.”
                  Have you ever questioned whether or not it is true that anyone is born in the wrong body or do you just take this remarkable claim as a statement of fact? How you answer that will determine in large measure whether or not one is a moral and virtuous person because of faith or a dastardly right wing bigot because of informed reasons based on evidence from reality.

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                14. Hello Tildeb. Thank you for reasonable question to discuss.

                  Have I questioned if anyone is born in the wrong body? I have to look at the medical community that accepts this as a medical fact based on medical science data and at the ones opposed who say that their god never puts anyone in the wrong body to fully answer the question.

                  All the arguments about kids not knowing their gender and god not putting them in the wrong body is the same as I got hammered with as a gay kid. God did not make gay kids because god hates gays and never made mistakes. I was told it was rebellion against parents, it was a fad to be in with the cool kids, it was a phase I would grow out of and so much more. All this anti-trans stuff is just a reissue of the anti-gay stuff from the 1970s, 1980, 1990s. We really were moving beyond that.

                  Tilden I knew I was attracted to boys and their parts at 6 years old. At 7 I was playing games with other boys where we would involve our penises. When girls wanted to join some boys were happy, but I was not. When I was five one of the hell spawn siblings I lived with held me down and told me I was gay. She was ten. I told her I did not understand. She explained it to me. I couldn’t disagree.

                  Now even with my history it is not unusual for gay / lesbian kids to understand they are attracted to the same gender at the same time as they understand gender and attraction.

                  So if at five I knew I was attracted to the same gender I had to understand what my gender was. Right. I was a boy who was attracted to boys and their sex organs. I knew I was a cis boy.

                  But if I was not cis, but transgender I would know I was a girl. And I would act and fight for that as I have all my life about being gay.

                  I would face the same hurtles, the same discrimination, the same religious claims that it couldn’t be true, the same claims that kids cannot know what gender or orientation they are.

                  See I can know this fight because I have lived it. Yes kids know as soon as they recognize different genders of those around them.

                  This part of your comment is asinine when addressed to me in this situation. I am not sure why you would include this unless you are trying to set up some kind of “gottach thing”. But here is what you wrote.

                  How you answer that will determine in large measure whether or not one is a moral and virtuous person because of faith or a dastardly right wing bigot because of informed reasons based on evidence from reality.

                  I disagree entirely with that statement. I see it as an attempt to change reality again. Reality in this situation shows the right wing to be wrong. Entirely wrong. You have claimed before that I am acting on some kind of religious faith about transgenderism, and that is stupid and does not exist. It is like saying being gay is a religion. Again it shows where your mind set is on this. Right wing bigots deny the reality and the medical science data to instead for an opinion based on bigotry.

                  Anyway. Hugs

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                15. I accuse you of holding a faith-based position and then shaping every answer to every question about it using the same kind of nebulous language that religions use to cover up and obfuscate their remarkable claims about reality. I raised the idea that some people believe that some children are born in the wrong body as an example of one such faith-based claim. You answer this by inserting the term ‘gender’. Some people are born, we are to believe, with the wrong ‘gender’ that doesn’t somehow align with the body. And that this is somehow alterable later.

                  So my question, which I think is entirely reasonable and non partisan is: But is this true?

                  So here we have a body on one side and this hazy term ‘gender’ on the other. And we’re talking about how to align the two – especially in the case of children. But, again, one has to first believe that ‘gender’ has a correlation with a body. with the right kind of body.

                  Why does this matter?

                  Well, think of the equivalent idea of a ‘spirit’ when speaking in religious terminology that somehow and similarly inhabits a body, that the correct religious belief practiced the right way somehow aligns the spirit with the body! Imagine if someone argued that this can be aligned with surgeries and hormones and developmentally delaying chemicals. I think raising concerns would be legitimate. At the very least, legitimate if not strongly called for. But not when it comes to transitioning ‘gender’ with biology! The – and ONLY then – are such concerns evidence of bigotry!

                  Oh really?

                  Similarly, you have to believe in the idea that gender is a physical body-inhabiting whatever (something akin to ‘spirit’) to presume that one can be born with the ‘wrong’ one… but never is this error on the ‘gender’ side of the equation. It’s always the body that is the problem. Always. In spite of considerable evidence that other psychiatric issues like autism play a role, especially in younger girls. That claim, too, is completely reliant on belief and not biology, in that such an idea to have merit has to be assumed to be true.

                  I think that’s not a strength but an obvious area of concern when it comes to advocating for life of ongoing medical services.

                  In this context, this one-sided framing supporters (ie ‘believers’) rely on only works if and only if we understand ‘gender’ to be related to biology through sex characteristics. Not psychology. Not psychiatry. Not any kind of mental dysfunction. Ever. It HAS to be the wrong body.

                  But the believer can’t use that body term ‘sex’ because it undermines the other essential plank of gender identity: fluidity. Change FROM something TO something. Hence, the term ‘trans’ as in transitioning. The faith-based belief here is that such sex-based characteristics can be physically altered to produce ‘alignment’. This, in spite of knowing that sex–based physiology and development based on this immutable inheritance is present in literally every cell of the body regardless of any changes later to the appearance of primary characteristics. This is why ‘gender’ has to be believed to be a real thing Just-Like-Biological-Sex but in its own special category so that it can be ‘fluid’ enough to reflect feelings.

                  But is it?

                  Well, you make a false comparison with same-sex attraction. The reason why one cannot discriminate on the basis of same-sex attraction is BECAUSE the preponderance of evidence is that this is a biological attraction and so it is an immutable characteristic. Gays and lesbians tell us that they didn’t ‘choose’ to be this way and it is inhuman to try to ‘covert’ this choice when it never was a choice. That’s why ‘conversion’ therapy is considered to be inhumane treatment.

                  Gender, however, is not sex-based or we would call it ‘sex-based’. That doesn’t work for gender identity. In fact, gender identity has to be itself transferable! Sure, one can TRANSition primary characteristics from appearing to be one sex to appearing to be the other sex… but hold on! Gender apparently covers a spectrum numbering in the hundreds of possible expressions! And these expressions, we are told, are based on feelings, on how one ‘identifies’. Not physiology: feelings. Identity. And this can change.

                  That’s why we are told we must use a different language to go along with gender framing… to the point we are to believe a man can be a woman, a male can be a female, that a man/male can gestate a baby and woman/female can have an erect penis, that the sex-based binary becomes ‘cisgendered’ and those who disagree become trans-exclusionary radical feminists – TERFs.

                  Gender identity, however, can and does change and revert, to the effect of creating transitioned individuals who decide to de-transition, to desist continuing with physiological transition. In fact, we know about 80% of most young people who claim feelings of misalignment between the body’s biological sex and the ‘gender’ feelings one sometimes has at some point during puberty apparently realign in their late teens early twenties… many of whom then report if asked actually after this ‘gender journey’ having immutable same-sex attraction stabilizing in these years. Many report feeling same sex attraction at a much younger age and found great social support if they identified as being born in the wrong body!

                  So we know there is good reason to doubt the gender faith-based ideology and it’s called compelling evidence from reality. Enough, I think to sincerely doubt that anyone is ever born in the wrong body; some people have mannerisms and tendencies and preferences outside of what many consider ‘normal’ and so my position is ‘So what?’ Why does this entail changing our language to make what isn’t true the only ‘acceptable’ way to live and let live, that woman must yield sex-based spaces and positions and even linguistic biologically based descriptors to make room for males who feel they must be validated by everyone as ‘female’ or be vilified as blaspheming heretics and heathens who are despicable bigots with no redeeming moral character?

                  Overreaching? Umm… yeah.

                  So when one is treated as if The Worst Kind Of Person for not going along with a faith-based belief and accused of being intentionally driven to deceive others by respecting what’s true, one cannot help but notice that this is the same tactic used by religious authorities to dehumanize blasphemers. Again, this is a typical aspect of brittle faith-based belief of fundamental extremism where no criticism or doubt is allowed without earning vilification.

                  I think this doubt is a valid position that has nothing to do with politics or partisan affiliation and everything to do with speaking truthfully. And I don’t think anyone who sees a problem with children being indoctrinated into and institutions being captured by this incoherent reality-denying, self-contradicting ideology that often promotes and excuses and permits and advocates for real harm done to real people in real life often without informed consent is the problem; rather, I think the ideologues who offer nothing but blanket support for it and vilification for anyone who doubts the One True Gender Faith are. And I think they need to be challenged.

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      2. Hello Tildeb. Interesting prospective you have there where the right does an act and you blame progressives for it. Bull! Politics do not bring people together if only one side wants to compromise and that is what we have now in the US. The right thinks compromise is they get everything they want and the left apologizes for not giving in sooner. Forget working together on legislation when if a republican votes even for something that helps the country that is during a Democratic administration or that is sponsored by the democrats the right attacks its own members for it. The right has no interest in working with anyone to get anything done, that is why they are called the obstructionist party. The party of no!

        Your entire goal is to attack progressives and shift the blame from where it belongs which is on the republicans / right to the progressives / left. If we gave into you on that then you would attack the corporate democrats for not moving right to meet the republicans. I have seen that game played before. That is where the right keeps moving right and demanding the democrats move right to meet them in the middle. They keep going until the right is all the way to their starting point and the left is all the way to the right. No thank you. Also the ones demanding the left move right never seem to demand the right move left to meet the democrats. Really a one sided way to have compromises.

        The progressive movement is about the government doing more for the public, they are not undoing anything except the unrestrained corporate profit and greed. That is what the progressives are undoing, the ability of unrestrained capitalism from stealing all the countries wealth from the public and moving it to the pockets of the wealthy. The ones taking away rights are the maga right wing that has taken body autonomy from women, has tried to deny acceptance and rights of the LGBTQ+, and is trying to remove the access to necessary healthcare from trans kids. Seems parental approval only is for the right wing maga parents while the majority of non-maga right wing parents are having those rights taken away. Something you are advocating for BTW!

        Ibram X Kendi’s central thesis is completely wrong. The remedy for past discrimination is not more discrimination. We know that. That idea is stupid. The idea that reparations and programs to overcome disadvantages of racism in history is discrimination makes no sense. Progressives do not support discrimination but the right wing wants to not only continue discrimination but to increase it. Again put the damn blame on the people it belongs to, not those fighting against it. Hugs

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        1. You may say the core tenet in anti-racism is wrong – “the only remedy for past discrimination is present discrimination” – but this IS the core tenet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS is what is taught about anti-racism IN THE CLASSROOMS of public education from K-12. In the curriculum! In the materials. In the lesson plans. In the projects. On the tests. In policy. In action. By design. And teachers to remain accredited have to SHOW they have produced and promoted student activism BASED ON THIS TENET.

          You CANNOT be a supporter of anti-racism and then say this tenet is wrong… because anti-racism IS this tenet in ideology, in policy, in practice, and in activism.

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          1. Hello Tildeb. Bull! No one is teaching that because of the racism against black people that white people must be discriminated against. No one is teaching that because gay people have been discriminated against that straight people must suffer the same fate. That is not being taught and shouldn’t be taught. What is being suggested and worked on is opening opportunities for black people that were historically denied such as schooling, opening paths for financing once denied, and other such programs. Women were discriminated against for a long time, but you don’t see calls for men to be denied credit in their names and to be paid less than women or be sexually harassed in the working environment. You are pushing a really extreme right wing media talking point to stop / derail talk of how to fix the discrimination of the past. Hugs

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            1. Scottie, I will reiterate what’s true: anti-racism AND this core tenet is 1) required by Boards, 2) required by curriculum, 3) required by Teacher’s Colleges, 4) required by school administration, 5) required across ALL subjects taught K-12, 6) required to be demonstrated by accredited teachers for accreditation and reviewed every two years to maintain a Teaching License.

              You seem to have either ignored or dismissed me as a professional, accredited teacher who is telling you what is true in public education, what plays out in the classrooms and at staff meetings, during the submission of scope and sequence reports (the yearly plan to meet curriculum guidelines), the monthly and daily lesson plans, the materials recommended and approved, and the expectations for teacher assessments by Board supervisors and co-ordinators. I KNOW this indoctrination bullshit has primacy over all other education goals so I know what indoctrination looks like in reality and how it is imposed on children.

              What you consider ‘opening opportunities’ is undisguised racist discrimination in action, a policy that reverses hypothetical systemic discrimination from yesteryear’s marginalized to today’s majority. I know this includes withholding information from parents and can include the intentional deception of parents in the name of ‘affirming’ a student’s vague and multiple variations of sexual identity IN THE SINGLE DIGIT YEARS long before a student begins puberty. This ideology called ‘progressive’ has fully captured public education BECAUSE it has fully captured Teacher Colleges. And there is only one right ideology and it is ‘progressive’ in all cases.

              This is a travesty. What is NOT being taught is how to think in various critical and creative ways but what to think and what to do. It is not education; it is indoctrination with the goal of creating anti-liberal ideological activists. Here’s the latest. Read it and weep.

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              1. Hello Tildeb. I do dismiss your saying your teaching it. I have had relatives in Canada all my life. I know many people from Canada. They wouldn’t tolerate teaching deliberate discrimination for any reason much less to solve historic / current discrimination. You know where I hear that. Fox and right wing media. Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity love to talk about the anti-white discrimination, how white people are being discriminated against, and that allowing other groups rights is taking rights away from others. They see equality as wrong and discrimination against non straight white people as natural. In the US we heard how to open up colleges and making sure there were spots for colored people or other ethnic groups was discrimination against white people. That is bull. But this is what you seem to be pushing. Sorry I am not buying it. If you are teaching that then you are misunderstanding deliberately what it is you are told to teach. Just as you misinform and twist things on trans treatment for kids, you must be twisting the anti-discrimination teachings. It is simple to teach anti-discrimination and to not discriminate. Teach tolerance, acceptance, respect and equality for people / things different from you. Teach diversity is a good thing. Teach that others are not lesser. Treat others as you want to be treated with kindness, respect, without being judgmental. It really is that simple. Hugs

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                1. You didn’t read the Bill, did you? I didn’t write that. I didn’t pass that. I didn’t vote for that. But the core anti-racist tenet mandated by legislation throughout public education doesn’t fit with your counter-reality beliefs, and so I must be the problem and full of disinformation BECAUSE I must be a right wing bigot.

                  Your critical thinking is absent, Scottie. The same thinking pattern you are using over and over again to reject reality’s arbitration of your belief that I keep raising is the same thinking pattern used by religious folk who seek to justify the certainty of their beliefs by word games and vilification of others who cause dissonance. I suspect you want to feel righteous in your cause and so you excuse how you are thinking with satisfaction of supporting ONLY what you believe. This is how religious folk have done it forever and how ‘progressive’ ideology relies on the same method. That’s the inevitable result of a successful indoctrination, whether feeling righteous as a foot soldier of Christ or a warrior of social justice. The method of patterned thinking is identical. It is totalitarian and anti-liberal. You are a True Believer.

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                2. Hello Tildeb. Actually I did skim it. I did not see the part where you claim that to prevent anti-discrimination you must discriminate.

                  What I did see is a lot of anti-discrimination language. So if you want to point to the actual parts that tell you to teach hate and discrimination, please do. Because I did not see it. This goes along with a lot of your assertions; you never point to or provide proof of your opinions. So show me where this says you must teach discrimination to solve discrimination. Hugs

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                3. Then your comprehension skills need work; after all, what do you THINK the repeated phrase ‘anti-racist’ and ‘anti-racism’ references actually refer to if not what anti-racism IS? “The only remedy to past discrimination is Current Discrimination.” Not my words: Kendi’s. And Crenshaw’s. And DeAngelo’s. This is what constitutes ‘anti-racism’ supposedly ‘fixing’ racial discrimination by discriminating against the ‘dominant’ racial group. That’s what Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion is in practice: rectifying the ‘historical’ harm from ‘systemic’ racism by implementing racist policies today that favour the previously disadvantaged. In fact, for hiring practices, a DEI section provided by Boards demands evidence from the potential employee to show how he or she has promoted this DEI aspect n order to even be CONSIDERED for a teaching position!

                  Again, you seem not just clueless about reality but a willing agent to dismiss it by vilifying anyone who raises real life criticism of the harmful and discriminatory effect of your beliefs in real life.

                  Seriously Scotttie, you read just like a died-in-the-wool creationist unwilling and unable to respect reality’s arbitration of your ‘progressive’ beliefs about it. This should concern you because every scrap of criticism you have about religious believers can now be applied directly to your intransigent ‘progressive’ belief system where nothing from reality counts UNLESS it seems to align with your beliefs. And you’re using the same thinking tools and reliance on smearing the messenger that religious apologists use. The window to reality you think you’re looking through is actually a mirror. And what’s looking back at you is not different than any affirmed and convinced evangelical. You’re not thinking straight.

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                4. Tildeb, I read it again. I did not see that line in the bill. But I did see a lot in the bill about anti-racism and makings sure no one was discriminated against. You are getting this quote from one man’s book “How to Be an Antiracist”. It is a stupid thing to say. It is like saying pro-life while denying food to kids, it is like saying to prevent girls from being raped all girls should be raped.

                  I know you like most right wingers hate anti-racism. Any talk of treating others equally seems to really offend you. You sound like Tucker Carlson on this subject and you wonder why I call you right wing.

                  What do ‘anti-racist’ and ‘anti-racism’ mean? Wow OK an anti-racist is someone who is against racists and anti-racism is someone against racism. Pretty easy actually. I am an anti-racist and I am anti-racism. I don’t like racists and I am all for not discriminating. You seem to deliberately want to twist the meaning of words to make non-discrimination a bad thing. And you made it clear when you write “… discriminating against the ‘dominant’ racial group.”.

                  Well dogs that love gravy, that is the right wing talking point about reverse racism and how now that blacks are treated fairly it is unfair to the poor mistreated white man! This is such a right wing racist position. Sorry if the white guy doesn’t get the job he feels entitled to because a black guy was better or that in order to help remedy the historic denial of jobs to black people a certain number of opening will be saved for a person of color. That is not discrimination against the white people. Refusing to be served or allowed in is discrinination.

                  You can twist words and claim I am clueless but I am getting a great read on you. You are clearly a right wing racist and a bigot who pushes a right wing agenda. You wont find much love or encouragement here. I am against everything you seem to represent. Hugs

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            1. I know it’s hard to believe but it is true. The examples of implemented anti-racism are legion in public education across all grade levels… for anyone who cares to look and listen. What I find most common, however, is that people would prefer to believe this or that that makes them feel good rather than find out for themselves disturbing truths.

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              1. Tildeb I am not a part of this conversation, but I want to address the idea that anti-racism is a bad thing in your opinion. That only applies if your point of view is as a white supremacist. You are talking as a teacher in Canada and mostly you comment on the US. That really is the only time anti-discrimination is a bad thing. Hugs

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    2. Hello Ali. I disagree. The author took three well known points and made a word salad out of it to look smarter than their point is. Their point is there is conservatism and should only be anti-conservatism. But that concept is starting from a misconception to begin with. Conseratism / the right has layers just as the liberals / the left does. There are decent people on the right who are not raving racist bigot lunatics. They deplore trump and trumpism. However the ones that get our attention are the extreme ones. Also to deny that there are many layers of liberals / the left is to deny reality. One only needs to look at the spectrum of Pelosi to AOC and the squad to see the different steps of liberalism. The democrats have often been described as a big tent and that to get them to agree with each other is like herding cats. What I took from the author is that the left should give up its differences to attack the right as a unified force. But that makes us like them, everyone walking lockstep together and it ruins our message of what we stand for. We say our strength is in our diversity, in our many different opinions. To give them up to have just one way of doing things is to deny who we are. As much as I don’t like it there are true democrats that are anti-abortion. I don’t say to kick them out of the party. I just don’t think we should vote for them. The last point the author made is that the right is violent. Yes that is true. We have to be aware of that, but we must not let that change us. If we let the right dictate who we are or what we believe even if they threaten violence, then they win. They will have succeeded in making us in their image. We must never do that. Hugs

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Oh, I’m not saying the piece is great. I think that line about the law protecting all and binding all is great, though. That was all I was pointing out. I mentioned it was a hard read for me.
        I appreciate you letting me gab on with your guests here, Scottie! As long as no one’s PO’d. 🙂

        Liked by 2 people

  5. Scottie … don’t hit me … but I do NOT think tildeb is attacking the transgender movement itself. Rather, I feel he is pointing out that many of those who DO support the issue are going a bit overboard in their defense … to the point that they sound almost like the Repukes who scream and holler against the iinnumerable democratic issues (like abortion) that they are against.

    As a matter of fact, other than your posts, I have read FAR LESS in the news about the transgender movement. I recognize this is probably because it’s not a major issue with me … but it may also have something to do with the fact I rarely visit social media sites … where it’s probably discussed at far greater lengths (like the Quora site I mentioned).

    In any case, while I know that neither you nor tildeb want to allow the other to have the “last word,” I think you’ve both reached the point of no return. JMO.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Hello Nan. Nan you must have read how I feel about your motives on this vs Tildeb’s and no I won’t hit you. I actually respect you’re not being comfortable with it and questioning. I find them honest.

      We have different news feeds and you do not get the same news feet I do; I get a lot of tweets and posts about and from trans people. I get the queerly news and other LGBTQ+ news sites. I watch a lot of trans positive YouTube channels. I don’t post them all of course. There is a lot of interest on social media, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube on this subject. And a lot of debunking of right wing media anti-trans positions. So I am exposed daily to it. Which means I get a lot more information and see a lot more bigotry than I post. It is the new gay issue to attack. Or was until the republican state governors / legislatures decided to include attacking gays in with their attacks last year on trans people.

      Nan I disagree with you on Tildeb. He uses Florida’s bigoted Surgeon General and the DeathSantis positions to support anti-trans positions. I can trace everyone of the myths he pushes to right wing media channels. Nan he is not questioning, he is actively pushing debunked right wing talking points from right wing media. Everything he pushes and he pushes hard as you know, has been answered not just by me but by medical professionals, yet he ignores it all. Take the idea that kids are being pushed into being trans with no mental / emotion exams as if it was a fad. You even say you feel it is just too many kids not getting counseling. But the truth is the other way. The truth is that before any child gets medical help transitioning, they must get the full medical work up. Plus in conservative or religious areas or with parents of those type, kids cannot get any support or medical assistance for transitioning. They are either forced to comply with the standards set by religion or by anti-trans conservatism otherwise they are abused and kicked out of the home. You often say a woman’s medical needs must be between her and her doctor, don’t you think the same should be for trans kids? Or is it OK for the government to control a person’s gender but not their uterus?

      Right now the LGBTQ+ including and starting with trans kids because they are the most vulnerable are experiencing the most hateful attacks from the right to exist in the last 50 years. It takes fighting back as hard as we are attacked. I posted that video today of the boy viciously attacked due to being LGBTQ+ and the school / police refusing to help. It was the second attack. Remember Mathew Shepard? Matthew Wayne Shepard was a gay American student at the University of Wyoming who was beaten, tortured, and left to die near Laramie on the night of October 6, 1998. How many more LGBTQ+ kids will it take to satisfy the rabid religious right beaten to death? That has not always been the case, it is new in Florida. Florida was once a gay haven state. This is what the bigotry pushed by Tildeb does. And Nan the right has seen it work in Russia and Hungary how you can change public acceptance to hate by making positive portrayals illegal and letting negative attack continue. They are doing it here, and it is scary for me a gay man.

      So going by what Tildeb uses as his anti-trans arguments and what he refuses to admit is incorrect, along with the fact he keeps pushing them along with attacking any dissent, yes he is actively working to stop trans peoples from being accepted and working to stop trans kids from getting the medical transitioning treatment they need and deserve. He is an anti-trans actives just as I am a pro-trans activist. You can see that in the fact he never responds to other posts on any other subject I do.

      Nan it is not about getting the last word. I let Tildeb have his say without editing or deletion. Something Polly who is a TERF did not do for me. But you have said, and I have explained to Tildeb that a never-ending constant rehash of the same points is useless, not entertaining, not interesting, not informative, not engaging to the readers. A rehash of day one on day two, then a rehash of day two on day three, and so on is simply a waste of everyone’s time. The problem is that Tildeb is an anti-trans activist so he must fight to the end as if his paycheck depends on it, long past the point a decent person would thing they said their piece and would just leave it be. He cannot leave it be, because he is trying hard to stop the transitioning of kids who have been assigned the wrong gender. He is like the maga Covid deniers, the people that are anti-vaccines, all the anti-science people who disagree with the factual science because they either don’t understand it or they simply don’t like what it means / implies / requires so they claim it is wrong. He is like religious people who insist school not teach what they don’t want their kids to learn but must teach both sides or teach the controversy. Anything to counteract the medical science that supports the current treatment of trans kids which is to accept them and help them transition.

      Nan I would love and have asked Tildeb to have his say, I respond, and when we start repeating to quit chewing the same old bone. But he refuses. I have pointed out he has his own blog, do what he wishes there. That is another way to tell he is an anti-trans activist, he is not interested as I am in just posting his views on his site with a comment or two on others, he must push repeatedly and constantly on any blog his disinformation. And make no mistake Nan, it is disinformation. So I have a choice, let that disinformation stand with no response which is what he has asked me to do before, or correct it with a reply or to close comments and deny everyone the ability to have their say.
      Hard choices. As always. Hugs

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        1. Hello Tildeb. I am a pro-choice atheist so I get accused of eating babies all the time. I hope you season and cook them correctly to get the best flavor. Do remember they have high fat content so plan your diet accordingly.

          The interesting thing is you have to resort to this comment to try to have the last word because you cannot refute everything I wrote about you. As the old saying goes “if the shoe fits …” Hugs

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          1. Speaking of it the shoe fits.. from the Times of London:

            “The Tavistock gender clinic is facing mass legal action from youngsters . . . Lawyers expect about 1,000 families to join a medical negligence lawsuit alleging vulnerable children have been misdiagnosed and placed on a damaging medical pathway.”

            And this surprises… ?

            (If you missed my link to the original Tavistock whistleblower – you know, the 2005 edition! – read it here.)

            May I also highly recommend Christina Buttons twitter thread, a reformed SJW who was shocked to find out what goes on at Boston’s Children’s hospital where some children start ‘social transitioning’ as young as 3 on their gender ‘journey’, where 9 and under are facilitated by the hospital to prepare for puberty blockers, hormones, and – eventually – the ‘full range’ of surgical ‘interventions’ starting this process at 10 years of age. Healthcare at its finest… if by ‘healthcare’ we mean life long medicalization!

            So who pays? Well, much of it is by the public. A phalloplasty, for example, costs between $20-40K per and of course insurance companies cannot ‘discriminate’ on the basis of gender identity! Approval is basically automatic. Is it any wonder, then, that the motto of the hospital is “Until every child is well?” After all, there’s a lot of money to be made accomplishing this noble task aligning gender ‘identity’ with the feelings of children… through chemical, hormonal, and surgical ‘solutions’ that then require ongoing ‘healthcare’ for life! Talk about a cash cow…

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            1. Hello Tildeb. How misleading of you. Oh my dogs that love gravy thousands are suing them, they were not being treated correctly, it is a facility to help kids transition and it is being sued and the reports says they did not get the proper care … bad …. horrible trans doctors and medical people. The government is take I even posted a breakdown of the problems with it. Plus while she tries to make claims that puberty blockers are bad and too many kids were helped to transition, the idea that thousands are / have sued is very misleading. There were thousands treated at the facility and now it can be sued, not has been or will be, but may.

              But now the NHS has ordered it to be shut down in the wake of a damning report that found teenagers were suffering because they were being forced to wait for treatment. Her findings raise the prospect that patients treated at the Tavistock and their parents may now sue the NHS for compensation.

              They could try to prove they were damaged by the medication, which staff at the centre are said to have claimed was ‘fully reversible’ despite a lack of evidence.

              The patients may also claim they could not have given informed consent to take the drugs given the lack of knowledge about their long-term effects.

              A high-profile court case was previously brought against the Tavistock by Keira Bell, who transitioned after being prescribed puberty blockers but later regretted it.

              Also your framing is wrong about what the government is doing it for. Again deliberately misleading.

              Regional centres would be set up to replace the service and “ensure the holistic needs” of patients are fully met, NHS England said, after being warned that only having one provider was “not a safe or viable long-term option”.

              The Tavistock clinic, named the Gender and Identity Development Service (Gids), was launched more than three decades ago to help children and other young people struggling with their gender identity.

              But in recent years, concerns have repeatedly been raised about the service. Inspectors rated it “inadequate” after complaints raised by whistleblowers, patients and families.

              The service was criticised for its care of patients both inside and outside the clinic, and it also had record waiting lists. Doctors reported concerns that some patients were referred on to a gender transitioning pathway too quickly.

              “The aim is to close the Tavistock clinic [the Gender and Identity Development Service (Gids)] by spring 2023, moving to the new provider model through specialist children hospitals,” a senior NHS source told the Guardian. There will be no immediate changes for patients already under the Tavistock’s care, according to the source. “The children being seen by the Tavistock (and those on waiting lists) will be transferred to a new provider over the course of that time.”

              In a statement, NHS England said it intended to build a “more resilient service” by expanding provision, and would establish two services led by specialist children’s hospitals in London and north-west England.

              There is a lot more balanced and informative view here at this link. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/28/nhs-closing-down-london-gender-identity-clinic-for-children

              Again this is all pushed the anti-trans people using a debunked “study”. Your framing leaves out the government wants access to many more transitioning facilities for trans kids / patients. I am sure the anti trans people will attack them also. The anti-abortion groups did this same shit attacking abortion clinic. They made up entire false documentaries of dead babies and the abortion providers selling baby parts done by an anti-abortion group called the Center for Medical Progress. https://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/ All ready the crowing by the anti-trans groups is everywhere and they are already drawing up plans to attack clinics in Scotland. So much for not being anti-trans.

              Now to the link stuff. Trash written by the rabid right. Honest news for sane people brought to you by Bari Weiss, is the about page of it. Already sounds balanced to me. One recent article: I Refuse to Stand By While My Students Are Indoctrinated. Children are afraid to challenge the repressive ideology that rules our school. That’s why I am. Hey that sounds good and progressive, until you read it and it is about not teaching diversity / anti-discrimination. Or this one: My University Sacrificed Ideas for Ideology. So Today I Quit. The more I spoke out against the illiberalism that has swallowed Portland State University, the more retaliation I faced. I noticed about 6 articles praising the ending of affirmative gender care. My dogs that love gravy really fair reporting from a rabid right winger and her sub stack.

              Fact the majority of medical associations agree based on medical data / science is gender affirming care. What is gender affirming medical care? Gender-affirming care is patient-centered and treats individuals holistically, aligning their outward, physical traits with their gender identity. Gender-affirming care is patient-centered and treats individuals holistically, aligning their outward, physical traits with their gender identity. Gender-affirming care, as defined by the World Health Organization, encompasses a range of social, psychological, behavioral, and medical interventions “designed to support and affirm an individual’s gender identity” when it conflicts with the gender they were assigned at birth. You cannot deny this! Hugs

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      1. I understand. (How can I not after such a lengthy response??) However, I want to add one more thing and then I’ll shut up. I have exchanged emails with tildeb on a couple of occasions and it’s very clear to me that he is NOT an “anti-trans activist.” Perhaps it’s the way he writes that makes it seem that way (he does get very “heavy” in his diatribes). Anyway, that’s part of the reason I defend him.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Hello Nan. In order to express myself correctly so I am not misunderstood I do have to include a lot of things, that takes a lot of written words. I admit I get tired of both reading and writing so much sometimes but I know of no other way to be clear and shorter. Nan please don’t think you have to shut up. I hate that idea. I don’t require that of anyone if they have a new or interesting point, I only ask we don’t rehash the same points over and over and over. If you have a point you want to make, a question to ask, or a statement you feel needs to be made, I want you to feel free to do it.

          Nan you say Tildeb is not an anti-trans activist? Yet he works against the interests of trans people. He spreads misinformation that has already been addressed by the medical community, he spreads myths such as trans people are a danger in bathrooms, he spreads the myth that men are just claiming to be women to join women’s sports teams to win sports awards they cannot do in a men’s sport, he actively denies the accepted medical best practices, along with denying the accepted medical science / data on multiple genders / sexes. Now if he simply said that was his position or thoughts, I wouldn’t call him an anti-trans activist. But notice I said he pushes and he spreads those things.

          He actively works to get the misinformation and myths about trans people into the public perception. He keeps pushing the misinformation and keeps misdirecting from the truth even when cited medical experts disagree with what he is claiming. That makes him an anti-trans activist, the same way Fox is the media arm activists of the republican party, Tucker Carlson being an activist for white supremacy and authoritarian governments, and I am a pro trans rights activist. He works as hard as possible for what he believes is correct, as I do. The difference is I have the data / science on my side and the majority of medical associations because I am pro-trans affirmative care and he is against it. I am for trans civil rights, and he is against them. I have never seen the position of being against rights as being the correct one historically. Anyway. Things are interesting here this morning. Hugs

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          1. Scottie, I truly think you have misinterpreted many of his comments. But that’s between you and him so please, no more about tildeb. It’s up to you two to work it out. I do NOT want to be a part of it. I did defend one of his comments, I admit, but no more. I’m “outta here.”

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          2. Who is this person you’re referencing? It sure ain’t me.

            “I have the data / science on my side and the majority of medical associations because I am pro-trans affirmative care and he is against it.” Factually and in reality not true.

            ” I am for trans civil rights, and he is against them.” I’m for civil rights. All in for shared civil rights. I have no clue why you define trans civil rights as if this is a good and necessary thing. It’s not. It’s straight up legal privilege. In fact and reality, your position is anti-civil rights. That’s why you support exactly the opposite of what ML King dreamed.

            And then look how you bait and switch: ” I have never seen the position of being against rights as being the correct one historically. Right there, Scottie, you use words to rewrite reality. I am for shared civil rights.

            But, hey, when one’s position is made only out of words rather than reality, it’s not surprising that you think your words accurately define me. They don’t. They miss the mark repeatedly. So I try and try again. What you’re actually and in fact ‘responding’ to, Scottie, is called a Straw Man argument. That is what creationists do, too, and think well of themselves for vilifying non believers. So yeah, I’m a non believer in gender ideology as I am a non believer of Critical Theory altogether. It is anti-liberal and harms real people in real life making it worthy of sustained criticism. Individuals swinging their fists, no problem. Connecting with my nose, however and undermining our shared rights, then yeah, I;ve got a problem and so do you.

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            1. Hello Tildeb. You are being misleading and disingenuous, and I wish you would stop. You are against the best practices affirmative care that the majority of the medical providers agree to based on the medical evidence and data.

              You attack trans women with myths and innuendo and just recently did so with a legal case of sexual assault that did not even involve a trans person. You push the myth that men are joining women’s sports teams to get awards and wins that they cannot get on male teams. The data doesn’t back that up. In fact the data shows the opposite. again as the first paragraph shows you fight against the right for trans kids to have the medical help they need. So yes you are against trans rights. Again disingenuous. Or just lying.

              Talk about dystopian 1984 double talk you claim I who does everything possible to support civil rights for women, the LGBTQ+, and non-white minorities, you who do fight against those things try to say I am the one against civil rights. It is pretty clear to everyone who is for rights here and who is against.

              I go by what you write. I don’t put the words in your mouth.

              I’m a non believer in gender ideology …

              Need I say any more about you being anti-trans, you just wrote it. The rest of your justification is garbage I disagree with as I would a white supremacist who tried to claim their reasons for thinking blacks are inferior is based on books written by another white supremacist, some anecdotal stories about how bad blacks are, or some junk fringe science that is designed to reach a goal rather than find information. You are on the wrong side of history but you keep fighting like hell to deny rights to others. Hugs

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  6. Hello everyone. I just went over the comment thread. I takes too long to load and is not really adding any new information. So I am closing comments on this one. As always there are other posts people can leave thoughts on and there will be a lot more trans positive posts in the future. Hugs

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