I am stunned at how fast and how forceful some religious groups are pushing their demand that everyone live by their church dictates instead of civil law. In One state the pride parade is barely going to be allowed to have a permit after 20 people showed up to push religious reasons to deny the parade permit. They claimed their bible / religious views took priority to any other considerations because of their god / Satan. These people a decade ago wouldn’t have been listened to yet now seem to be calling the shots. In Florida Christian religious views trump all other considerations at town council / legislative meetings. I know in the south a lot of Christian privilege is assumed and there is little you can do right now against it, but it used to never take over the state legislatures. It is terrifying to see how entitled these Christians Taliban are in regulating other people’s personal lives, what other people’s kids can read, what other people’s kids can watch. These religious Taliban are not about keeping their freedoms they are about taking away other people’s freedoms, they are not about being to worship as they believe but about forcing others to follow their churches dictates in what is right or wrong. Hugs
Blistering Democratic opposition couldn’t stop legislation that criminalizes allowing minors into adult shows with “lewd” content from winning Senate approval. The Senate legislation, advancing on a 28-12 party-line vote, doesn’t mention “drag shows.” But (SB 1438) that Clay Yarborough, sponsored, is largely aimed at stopping children from attending those shows.
It authorizes state government officials within the Department of Business and Professional Regulation (DBPR) to suspend or revoke the liquor license of any establishment that admits minors to a live, adult performance. A person who admits a child to such a show would face a first-degree misdemeanor, punishable by up to $1,000 in fines and up to a year in prison.
Democrats believe that the bill could also criminalize public drag shows such as those at outdoor Pride events.
Sen. Clay Yarborough [photo above] first appeared on JMG in 2010, when as a member of the Jacksonville City Council he declared that gays, Muslims, and atheists should not be permitted to hold public office, otherwise God will smite the fuck out of the country. Or something.
“I would say that when I read Romans Chapter 1, I see striking resemblances between where Rome was just prior to its fall in comparison to where America is today. There are striking similarities in what we allow in our societies. Rome did not fall from an outside attack, whether it was military or otherwise. It fell from within because it was morally bankrupt. And I believe we have been treading in that area for a while and the more that we do not embrace that which honors the Lord, we shouldn’t be surprised if the blessings do not continue on our land.”
It comes just one day after GOP Rep Barnaby went on an unhinged, transphobic rant likening trans people to “mutants, demons, and imps” — and GOP leadership remains silent.
Because that same bigotry is animating bills like the Drag Ban that passed in the Senate today.
You should see the parade of young women at the LA Fitness locations here in the Fort Lauderdale area. The women are dressed like something out of Mad Max, strips of clothing barely covering their tits, hanging out all over the place. I don’t object to what they are doing. I’m objecting to the application of one standard at LA Fitness (nothing…kids can go) and drag shows (aunties in drag are being banned).
You’re confused, Caitlin. It’s only embryos/fetuses (esp White ones in ‘merka) that are sacred. After they’re born, fuhgettabout ’em! AR-15 target practice the lot of the lil’ rugrats!
LOL! I am (was) a WASP, but I went to a Catholic college. First time I had (yes, mandated due to course work) to go to mass, I kept thinking, these men are in dresses. With filigree, embroidery, and really ornate hats.
They demand that parents have the right to make medical decisions for their kids, like not vaccinating them, then make it a serious crime to get their child gender affirming care.
GOP: “Parents know best what’s right for their children so government should back off!”
Also GOP: “Our (Republican) government knows better than parents what’s right for children when it comes to drag shows, CRT, education, gender affirming care, rape and pregnancy.”
“When are the sane Floridians going to wake up and do something?“
Probably about the same time that all the sane women in America finally organize to protect reproductive rights….. I’m frankly amazed it hasn’t happened.
The one thing that keeps me hopeful is that, socially, we have not backslid. One could make an argument that social progress is still moving forward. What’s critical is that our straight Allie’s be very awake and stand by us as we beat back these laws. If they “sit this one out” politically, we’re in (deeper) trouble.
Already is undone. Im just shocked at how quickly they are being allowed to take over. Before the feds wake up and realize it, its going to be to late to cut out this cancer
Many years ago (about 30) I was out with my friends at Houston’s pride parade. In addition to the gay and lesbian people you’d expect to see there, there were also a good number of Hispanic families with their kids. I found that odd until a friend told me that this is what Carnaval is like where they are from (including drag queens) so this is just good fun for the whole family to them. They didn’t think they had to shield children from adults in elaborate costumes. They were just putting on a show to entertain the crowd. They got it. I think most Republican leaders get it too. They just need a minority group to bash to distract their base from how sucky their lives are under GQP policies.
The people who habitually groom children into their stupid fucking cult feel they have the right to control others’ freedom of expression, and without any sense of irony, seek to enforce that control by labeling all expression they don’t approve of as “grooming”.
If you REALLY are concerned about children, why not protect them from Ministers and Priests? I mean, if you consider EVERY GAY PERSON a groomer, shouldn’t you consider EVERY Priest and Minister a child diddling monster? Close, or at least tax, the chucrhes.
A man read a passage from the Bible about resisting “sexual immorality.” “You think you are doing things based on laws,” a crying woman said, “but … you are letting Satan in.”
1) We don’t govern based on the Bible.
2) Actually, this is more like letting Satan *out.* :p
OT, but relevant; Back in the day when segregation laws were repealed, white people would just close down all the public pools and fill them in with concrete in order to spite black people. They literally made their own lives joyless in order to prevent other people from having fun as well.
And now that the children of those bigots are being told that reading is not a crime and they have to put all the hidden books back…. they’re doing the same thing and making new rules to just get rid of public libraries altogether.
It’s always the same shit with the Christians. They could quite easily change the channel, not check the book out, not go to the movie, not marry someone of the same sex, not have an abortion, but that isn’t enough. They have to prevent other people from doing things they object to. Newsflash, Christians: your god is losing ground and followers BECAUSE of your annoying and destructive nonsense.
They have their tax-exempt Churches, their schools, home schools, their colleges, their businesses, their radio/TV stations, their internet sites, their Christmas national holiday since 1870, and their cult is protected by the constitution…but that’s not enough, they want to force everyone to join their cult.
Festival organizers have already agreed that there won’t be any drag performances.
Just goes to show it doesn’t matter how may times you make concessions to these maniacs they will not stop until the entire LGBT+ community is erased. I’d go so far as to say that banning drag for fear of being called “groomers” merely encouraged them, and they clearly did not shy away from alleging child sexual abuse, “drag performances” or not.
It’s been said many times, but there’s no hate like christain love.
They claim moral superiority and at the same time overwhelmingly support the most immoral leaders the world has known. They screech about obscenity and at the same time are the most vociferous consumers of porn. They harp on “family values” and at the same time their kids are getting impregnated in middle school, are being beaten by their fathers and are being sexually abused by their clergy. They label us as sexual deviants and at the same time there’s no sexual act that we enjoy that they don’t also engage in. They lie and lie and lie and lie again–claim “gay friends” that they clearly do not have, claim knowledge about us, our lives, our intentions and our activities that they clearly do not hold, and the biggest lie of all–claim that their oppression and marginalization is an expression of love. The glee and schadenfreude that can clearly be seen on their faces every time they succeed at fucking over our community exposes their hypocrisy and treachery.
They may claim to love people like me despite my being an evil sodomite, but I don’t mirror their lie. So I feel free to say that I hate these assholes with the burning heat of a thousand suns. Every time one of these brain-dead morons opens their mouth to mewl about protecting their drooling simpleton brats from people like me, I want to smash their face with a bat. Every obstacle that our community has ever faced can be traced back to the hands of these religious freaks. They cannot die off soon enough for me.
Fuck your god, fuck your families, fuck your values, fuck your churches, fuck your morals and fuck you!
I am an older gay guy in a long-term wonderful relationship. My spouse and I are in our 33rd year together. I love politics and news. I enjoy civil discussions and have no taboo subjects. My pronouns are he / him / his and my email is scottiesplaytime@gmail.com
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30 thoughts on “FL Senate Passes Bill Outlawing Minors At Drag Shows”
Scottie, if an 18 y/o or older wants to attend a drag show, have at it. I really could care less. As soon as minors are involved, that crosses all boundaries of what is in my opinion age-appropriate.
Hello Ragnarsbhut. Why. Have you been to a drag show? Do you know what they are? Or do you go on what you hear on right wing misinformation media. Drag is simply dress up for adults. So you give what you think drag is! By the way do you see any women running around in pants, that is drag dude. You better stop them right away!
Examples of drag: RuPaul has an entire TV series on guys dressed in drag. Robin Williams as Mrs. Doubtfire in Mrs. Doubtfire. Neil Patrick Harris as Hedwig Robinson in the Broadway adaptation of Hedwig and the Angry Inch. Johnny Depp as Bon Bon/Lt. Victor in Before Night Falls. Tom Hanks as Buffy in Bosom Buddies. Glenn Close as Albert Nobbs in Albert Nobbs. ( yes women dressing as a man is called drag also. Gael Garcia Bernal as Zahara in Bad Education. Nathan Lane as Albert in The Birdcage. Willem Dafoe as Paul Smecker in The Boondock Saints. Hilary Swank as Brandon Teena in Boys Don’t Cry. Cillian Murphy as Patricia “Kitten” Braden in Breakfast on Pluto. Cate Blanchett as Jude Quinn in I’m Not There. Cameron Diaz as Natalie Cook, Lucy Liu as Alex Munday, and Drew Barrymore as Dylan Sanders in Charlie’s Angeles . Do you need more, as I have hundreds. It is simply dressing as is socially considered the clothing worn by a different gender Hugs.
Hello Ragnarsbhut. Does that mean you have changed your mind about drag? And drag being acceptable in society? I still want you to tell me what you think drag is? Hugs
Scottie, I personally have no interest in drag shows or that lifestyle. I believe that people should be free to partake in that if they want. Just leave children alone and don’t involve them at in that situation.
Again Ragnarsbhut why? You are making a statement based on your judgment that kids shouldn’t see drag. Tell me why? If you believe it is wrong, say why it is wrong.
Just leave children alone? What is harmful about drag for children. Want to know where kids are molested, it is not drag shows but churches! That is a statistical fact! So let’s ban kids from churches and tell clergy to leave kids alone. As for parents who want their kids to go to church, sorry we are passing a law to protect kids from sexualization, so no parent can take their kids to church. That is what you are saying about drag without any data of fact of harm to back up your opinion.
So again what is the harm for kids to see drag, which is only people dressed up in costume of the clothing normally worn by the other gender stereotype. Hugs
Scottie, I am trying to demonstrate the absurdity of people who have an irrational fear of drag shows. While I get the fact that it is a form attire, I am not really into that sort of thing myself.
Hello Ragnarsbhut. Sorry friend, I don’t believe you. You say you are trying to demonstrate the absurdity of people who have an irrational fear of drag shows, but you promoted that very irrational fear with your comment to “just leave the kids out of it.”
As soon as minors are involved, that crosses all boundaries of what is in my opinion age-appropriate.
I asked you a question I want an answer to. Why do you think drag is inappropriate for children to see, to be at a performance of, and that includes drag queen story hours.
Please answer the question. Why is drag wrong for children to see. Which goes back to my question of what do you think drag is? Ragnarsbhut you either can answer the questions I ask or you are simply repeating what you hear on right wing media but are not able to process it. Hugs
Scottie, to clarify, I have an objection to it if the kids are part of anything related to drag shows if it is brought into a public school type environment. If a kid sees it on TV but under supervision of the parent(s) at the time, I would not have an issue with that per se.
Hello Nan. Read my reply to Ragnarsbhut please and answer the same questions. BTW if you wear pants in public that is dressing in drag, better not let anyone under 18 see you. Hugs
No, Scottie. A women in pants is not being in “drag.” Even you defined it appropriately — it is simply dressing as is socially considered the clothing worn by a different gender.” Drag, on the other hand, is more commonly defined as a type of entertainment where people –generally MEN– dress up and perform. Cross-dressing and drag are not synonymous.
I have nothing against drag shows. While I’ve never been to one, I’ve seen portrayals in movies and TV (especially in some sitcoms) — and I’m sure children have seen them on TV as well. However, I do not feel it is appropriate for children under the age of 18 to attend a live one. Perhaps that’s speaking as a parent, but it’s how I feel.
Of course the Repugs are making a big deal of this … and thus it becomes a “talking point” and people start taking sides. But that’s the modus operandi for them … to stir up as much dissension as possible — and conveniently ignore the REAL issues that people are facing today.
BTW, you need to take the time to read my latest post: “A Call to Battle.”
Hello Nan. Yes women wearing pants is drag. Drag is wearing clothing normally assigned to the other gender. By the people who are pushing this nonsense, men wear pants and women wear dresses. Nan cross-dressing has historically been and is now considered drag. Read the anti-drag bills coming out on this from red states. I looked it up and the majority of the search answers said people who dressed in drag were gay and cross dressers just dressed in other gender clothing. So if your husband wears a dress it is just cross-dressing, but if I wear one it is drag? WTF! I assume you can see how that makes no sense.
However, I do not feel it is appropriate for children under the age of 18 to attend a live one.
Why? Just what do you think is happening in a public setting? Let’s go back to Drag Queen story hours? Have you seen the pictures? Happy kids enjoying a story being read to them by a person in dress up costumes in a public place with the parents and other adults present. Just what about this is harmful to children? To other drag I again ask why you think a guy dressed as Dolly Parton is somehow harmful to kids? What if they are dressed up as Captain Jack Sparrow the pirate? Is that also harmful to kids?
I grant as a parent you have a right to not let your child go to a drag show, I wouldn’t let mine anywhere near a church. But in red states what is happening is because of a huge media push by right wing Christian conservatives to make drag a sexual thing, which it is not, so drag in public is being outlawed. Which is a pretext for outlawing trans people dressing as the gender they identify with. And Nan that gets us back to you wearing pants. Slippery slope isn’t it. Hugs
No, Scottie. Both the Merriam-Webster and the Cambridge Dictionaries say that the wearing of clothes designed for the opposite sex is cross-dressing. Drag is defined by the Cambridge Dictionary as: “the activity of dressing in clothes of a different gender and acting in an exaggerated way like a person of that gender, especially of a man wearing highly decorated women’s clothes, wigs (= artificial hair), jewellery, make-up, etc. as a costume and performing for entertainment.” (My emphasis.)
Now I will concede that the current political atmosphere may be combining the two terms into one (drag), but by definition, they are not the same.
And the library thing is far different than what I mean by a “drag show.” The latter is usually done in a nightclub setting and includes alcoholic beverages. “Story-hour” at a library is far, far different and I would have no problem with children being present.
I do agree the Repukes are getting carried away with all things related to “sex” to please their evangelical base. However, I think we need to separate the politicians from the average person that votes Republican because not all of them are so radical.
Hello Nan. You are using dictionary terms that are not the current usage or what is meant by the words drag. It also is not what the republicans are trying to outlaw. The current republican attempt is to define drag as burlesque and that is what you are doing. A burlesque is a literary, dramatic or musical work intended to cause laughter by caricaturing the manner or spirit of serious works, or by ludicrous treatment of their subjects. The word derives from the Italian burlesco, which, in turn, is derived from the Italian burla – a joke, ridicule or mockery.
What is the meaning of drag queen?
drag queen. A male transvestite; also, a female impersonator. For example, He was surprised to find out that Roxanne was actually a drag queen. This term uses the slang noun drag in the sense of “female attire worn by a man” (a usage dating from about 1870; also see in drag).
This is the common usage of drag. A female impersonator. Yes no doubt it can be exaggerated. But have you seen the Kardashians? Have you seen Dolly Parton? Seriously big boobed females with a select body type that a lot of females want to look like.
What happens at a drag show?
A drag show is a form of entertainment performed by drag artists impersonating men or women, typically in a bar or nightclub. Shows can range from burlesque-style, adult themed nightclub acts to all-ages events with sing-alongs and story times.
What you mean by drag show is not what is being regulated. That already has laws and regulations to it. It is called adult entertainment and / or sex work. To use your definitions, what is being regulated is cross-dressing, in that these republicans do not want kids exposed to men dressed as women. Yes family friendly events where men or women are dressed in the gender stereotypical clothing of the other gender are what is being targeted. And where does that come from? Yes the bible.
What does the Bible say about cross-dressers?
5 THE MEANING OF DEUTERONOMY 22:5
The text originally reads thus: There shall not be an article (keli) of a man upon a woman, and a man shall not put on a wrapper of (simlat) a woman, because everyone doing (who does) these (things) is an abomination of (unto) the Lord your God.
The people behind these new laws have learned from the abortion bounty hunter laws, the anti-woke laws, the don’t say gay laws, to keep the language vague so it can be used as anything they want at the time. It is similar to the anti-loitering laws some cities have that mean just being somewhere if the police needed to charge you with something and you were not doing a crime. These laws turned out to be unconstitutional but took decades to get through the courts. DeathSantis and the republicans in Florida want to cause fear of what may be meant by the law to keep librarians self censoring beyond the actual written words of the bill. How often in the don’t say gay bill debate do you hear the words “that is not in the bill”. But that is what these laws basically do and are designed to do. The goal. To outlaw trans people or what you call cross dressers. Hugs
Since the majority (or so it seems) of people who are upset about this issue believe the bible is behind them, they should be held to the scripture you posted!!! Seems only fair, doesn’t it?
As for “drag” and “cross-dressing,” perhaps it’s because I personally would not like someone telling me I’m dressing in “drag” when I wear my jeans — no matter how “technically” correct it might be. Probably has to do with the terminology I grew up with.
Hello Nan. Sorry for the lateness of the reply. I doubt trying to hold bible thumpers to any bible verses would work. They have trained themselves to look around them, to reinterpret their meaning, and to outright change what the verses say to give them justification for their own beliefs.
Did you see my post https://scottiesplaytime.com/2023/05/21/texas-house-advances-bill-to-criminalize-drag-shows/? Did you see how the law defined drag? But then the republicans give away the game by throwing in the words abnormal, unhealthy, degrading, shameful. Already in some of these deeply red states with republican super majority they are instituting dress codes in government offices which stipulate modesty requirements for women along with no pants even for female staff members. How long until in public they say any man wearing “female clothing” abnormal, unhealthy, degrading, shameful? That is what has passed in Florida recently calling it a bill to criminlize drag. Then how long until they try to bring back 1950s standards of dress for women? If you don’t think it could happen, we gays / trans never thought we would be fighting to keep the social acceptance we have gained and the acceptance of gay / trans kids at schools would be ripped away in such a short two years. Really it went from baby steps last year to this year full out banning us from many public places. To think in one year gay kids would be forced back into the closet and being open targets again is stunning. So yes public shaming of how women are dressed could happen soon. Hugs
Nan, I believe that people should leave each other alone in regards to matters such as this. As long as minors are not involved, then it really does not matter to me otherwise.
Hi All;
I can’t agree.
I would say, for the most part, I agree that there are some age appropriate things. Like health care. Education. Spirituality and wonder. Art and music. Sports and a love of physical fitness. Safety. Yet, if a child’s parent, who we allow to make religious, educational, medical, familial, regional, and a whole host of other choices decides that they want that child to see men, some dressed as women, put on a show, why do I or you and in this case, the state get to decide for them now that is too far? Why?
Men dressed as women acting a role has been going on since before William Shakespeare.
I guess I’m back to that saying: If you don’t agree with taking a child to a drag show, don’t take your child to a drag show.
The thing we have to remember is that the political group manipulating this issue are the same who have just denied increasing the school lunch program yet gave themselves one. Yes. Manipulating.
I will add that I’ve seen adult drag talent perform during a regional pageant. Those performances and pageants are held in adult venues. I’ve also seen a couple of drag kiddie shows. Those tend to be in libraries, coffee shops, etc. Now maybe in some states the twain can meet, but most states already limit the times during which a minor can be in a place that serves alcohol, which is where you’d find adult drag performances.
Hello Ali. Please see my reply to Randy (Blundersonword) and I agree with you. Drag is nothing more than dressing in the clothing normally associated with a different gender based on stereotypical gender roles. That is all it is. But those standards change with time. Before the 1920s both boys and girls dressed in dresses until about 10 to 11 or puberty. Pink used to be for boys and blue for girls (I am glad that changed as my fav color is blue) Look at photos / paintings of the founding fathers. They were not dressed as 1950s dads.
But these people are conflating these events deliberately Ali. They want the idea of a person dressing differently than they demand to be seen as deviant and sick. That forces everyone back into their preferred mode of society and puts their feelings of what is acceptable in society as law. It is all about demonizing others to make everyone to follow their church view of what society should be. All of it comes down to they hate the changes in public society since the 1950s, including civil rights, and want to force all of us back in time to where they felt comfortable and in charge. Hugs
Hello Randy. Hello Randy my brother! I agree and love what you wrote but you along with the others here are missing something. What are these drag laws based in and who is pushing them? First who is pushing these laws and claiming it is for the protection of children. The religious right. Those who claim trans is against god’s laws. Those who claim their bibles say don’t dress in the clothing of other genders. But why would it matter what clothing is worn? Because men are supreme and the leaders according to their god, and women are lessor beings subservient to those same men, again on the orders of their male god. If a man dresses as a woman it messes with the idea of men being supreme in charge over women some, but boy, if a woman dresses as a man … they simply ignore it as silly and put her in her place. Is the woman taking a man’s authority? Is a woman now to be treated as a man with automatic authority over others? How can men stay in charge if they let women dress as men? In their minds it is only dress up for women to dress as men but a male giving up their male authority to dress as a woman is something they must fight as hard as possible. Because if a man can be a woman then men don’t have an automatic right of superiority, do they?
Drag is based on gender stereotypes about clothing. Which makes no sense as clothing standards change over time constantly. Think of the founding fathers who were men dressed in frilly shirts, short pants with leggings, wigs, and even makeup. Look at the pictures, those guys would be arrested in Tenn and Florida for doing drag. Have you seen the pictures of white Jesus? Always in a dress. Or some of the fancy dress of some clergy? Oh you say those are robes. But what is a robe but a style of dress?
The people currently against drag are the same people trying to force the US back to the 1950s social acceptance of gender roles and what was allowed in public. Also the attack on drag is a substitute for attacks on trans. We have all seen the drag queen story hour pictures and we see nothing sexual about it. These people on the right are forcing that to be sexual in the minds of people to accuse all trans people of being sexual deviants. Hugs
I’d like to add, as a human female who says you can take my blue jeans from my cold, dead hands, that women’s wear will be in the legislative mix very soon. So many states have passed some approval for school vouchers, now. That’s state money going to private and home schools. In many states that do that, there are dress codes for students in private schools. Those codes require pant/shorts for boys, skirts for girls. I went to elementary school when that was the law for all schools, as a quick by-the-by. Many of us here probably did that.
Back to these days, again: many private schools are requiring such dress codes, and the churches do it, too. Males can wear basically whatever they want except dresses, females must wear skirts. Likely no one wants to get me started on all the instructions issued to females for preparing to leave their house.
Scottie’s big picture is, all these things will happen, if we continue to allow this all to snowball as it is. It truly is a war preserving male privilege, mostly for white males. And apparently to me, mean and stupid ones.
Thank you for sharing Ali. As you say it is a race to the past, a regressive past where some people felt more empowered and comfortable. Where what was just assumed at church was done in public. But those days were only good for a select few, not the public or society at large. The civil rights era was about expanding rights and public accommodation for as many as possible, and removing needless restrictions. I never understood the rage against the 1960s sexual revolution as … well we all know that was publicly shown was not what sometimes happened behind closed doors. Once when I sat on a counter as an 8 or 9 yr old pouring drinks for card playing adults as often happened in our home, I heard my adoptive father say he never could understand men being attracted to minors. My adoptive mother was pregnant with his child when she was 14, and he was 19. Again public morals were not what was happening at home. So I really don’t understand the minority in a minority of the Republican Party that is desperately trying to recreate the failed days of the 1950s or 1920s.
By the way, when they come for your jeans, know I will be fighting beside you for your right to wear them. Until these people go by the mixed cloth bit in the bible themselves, they have nothing to say to the rest of us. Hugs
The relevant biblical verses (Leviticus 19:19 and Deuteronomy 22:11) prohibit wearing wool and linen fabrics in one garment, the blending of different species of animals, and the planting together of different kinds of seeds (collectively known as kilayim).
Scottie, while I personally have no issue with drag shows, how they work should only be explained by parents to their children, as any other places, e.g. a school setting, would be considered in my opinion an inappropriate environment for said purpose. Some kids may grasp the concept immediately and some may require more time to figure it out.
Hello Ragnarsbhut. What do you mean by how they work? In Florida any man wearing what is normally thought of as female attire is in drag. The republican right wing religious legislators are trying to enshrine in law the dress standards of the 1950s.
Have you seen the pictures of drag queen story hours? Guys in costume reading to kids, so what is to explain about how it works?
Drag to entertain is guys dressing as females in flashy costumes singing songs and telling funny stories, what is to explain how it works?
What you seem to be saying, and please correct my impression if I am wrong, is you think kids need some kind of big explanation about men in dresses or skirts? Is that the how it works you think needs being explained? Why? Kids don’t care, and kids already understand playing dress up. It is only a big deal when adults freak out about cross-dressing.
What about women wearing pants, button down shirts, or suits? It is happening more often that women in business situation dress in suits. Women on TV and movies dress in traditionally men’s clothing. Do kids need that explained as to how it works?
Do you see the problem? The right has created a boogieman that did not exist by taking a simply concept of dress up and claiming it something evil, degenerate, and going to harm all the children. the republicans give away the game by throwing in the words abnormal, unhealthy, degrading, shameful. They said that about gay people also, look up Anita Bryant and her protect the children campaign. However drag has been done forever, and on US TV since it began. Want to know how silly it has gotten with religious people terrified of men dressing up in female attire? A school recently had to cancel a field trip to see a kid’s play because the actors played both the male and female roles. One parent complained, just one, and so no child could go see the play. Yes a right wing religious person forced their religious belief on all the kids regardless of their families beliefs. Hugs
Scottie, if the explanation is provided by a parent or legal guardian as to what happens at drag shows or that which is filmed on TV, I would have no issue with that. Any person who is not a parent or legal guardian otherwise has no business discussing that with kids in my opinion.
Scottie's Playtime 
Scottie, if an 18 y/o or older wants to attend a drag show, have at it. I really could care less. As soon as minors are involved, that crosses all boundaries of what is in my opinion age-appropriate.
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Hello Ragnarsbhut. Why. Have you been to a drag show? Do you know what they are? Or do you go on what you hear on right wing misinformation media. Drag is simply dress up for adults. So you give what you think drag is! By the way do you see any women running around in pants, that is drag dude. You better stop them right away!
Examples of drag: RuPaul has an entire TV series on guys dressed in drag. Robin Williams as Mrs. Doubtfire in Mrs. Doubtfire. Neil Patrick Harris as Hedwig Robinson in the Broadway adaptation of Hedwig and the Angry Inch. Johnny Depp as Bon Bon/Lt. Victor in Before Night Falls. Tom Hanks as Buffy in Bosom Buddies. Glenn Close as Albert Nobbs in Albert Nobbs. ( yes women dressing as a man is called drag also. Gael Garcia Bernal as Zahara in Bad Education. Nathan Lane as Albert in The Birdcage. Willem Dafoe as Paul Smecker in The Boondock Saints. Hilary Swank as Brandon Teena in Boys Don’t Cry. Cillian Murphy as Patricia “Kitten” Braden in Breakfast on Pluto. Cate Blanchett as Jude Quinn in I’m Not There. Cameron Diaz as Natalie Cook, Lucy Liu as Alex Munday, and Drew Barrymore as Dylan Sanders in Charlie’s Angeles . Do you need more, as I have hundreds. It is simply dressing as is socially considered the clothing worn by a different gender Hugs.
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Scottie, point stipulated.
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Hello Ragnarsbhut. Does that mean you have changed your mind about drag? And drag being acceptable in society? I still want you to tell me what you think drag is? Hugs
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Scottie, I personally have no interest in drag shows or that lifestyle. I believe that people should be free to partake in that if they want. Just leave children alone and don’t involve them at in that situation.
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Again Ragnarsbhut why? You are making a statement based on your judgment that kids shouldn’t see drag. Tell me why? If you believe it is wrong, say why it is wrong.
Just leave children alone? What is harmful about drag for children. Want to know where kids are molested, it is not drag shows but churches! That is a statistical fact! So let’s ban kids from churches and tell clergy to leave kids alone. As for parents who want their kids to go to church, sorry we are passing a law to protect kids from sexualization, so no parent can take their kids to church. That is what you are saying about drag without any data of fact of harm to back up your opinion.
So again what is the harm for kids to see drag, which is only people dressed up in costume of the clothing normally worn by the other gender stereotype. Hugs
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Scottie, I am trying to demonstrate the absurdity of people who have an irrational fear of drag shows. While I get the fact that it is a form attire, I am not really into that sort of thing myself.
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I meant form of attire.
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Hello Ragnarsbhut. Sorry friend, I don’t believe you. You say you are trying to demonstrate the absurdity of people who have an irrational fear of drag shows, but you promoted that very irrational fear with your comment to “just leave the kids out of it.”
I asked you a question I want an answer to. Why do you think drag is inappropriate for children to see, to be at a performance of, and that includes drag queen story hours.
Please answer the question. Why is drag wrong for children to see. Which goes back to my question of what do you think drag is? Ragnarsbhut you either can answer the questions I ask or you are simply repeating what you hear on right wing media but are not able to process it. Hugs
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Scottie, to clarify, I have an objection to it if the kids are part of anything related to drag shows if it is brought into a public school type environment. If a kid sees it on TV but under supervision of the parent(s) at the time, I would not have an issue with that per se.
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This is one time when I agree with you, rag.
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Hello Nan. Read my reply to Ragnarsbhut please and answer the same questions. BTW if you wear pants in public that is dressing in drag, better not let anyone under 18 see you. Hugs
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No, Scottie. A women in pants is not being in “drag.” Even you defined it appropriately — it is simply dressing as is socially considered the clothing worn by a different gender.” Drag, on the other hand, is more commonly defined as a type of entertainment where people –generally MEN– dress up and perform. Cross-dressing and drag are not synonymous.
I have nothing against drag shows. While I’ve never been to one, I’ve seen portrayals in movies and TV (especially in some sitcoms) — and I’m sure children have seen them on TV as well. However, I do not feel it is appropriate for children under the age of 18 to attend a live one. Perhaps that’s speaking as a parent, but it’s how I feel.
Of course the Repugs are making a big deal of this … and thus it becomes a “talking point” and people start taking sides. But that’s the modus operandi for them … to stir up as much dissension as possible — and conveniently ignore the REAL issues that people are facing today.
BTW, you need to take the time to read my latest post: “A Call to Battle.”
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Hello Nan. Yes women wearing pants is drag. Drag is wearing clothing normally assigned to the other gender. By the people who are pushing this nonsense, men wear pants and women wear dresses. Nan cross-dressing has historically been and is now considered drag. Read the anti-drag bills coming out on this from red states. I looked it up and the majority of the search answers said people who dressed in drag were gay and cross dressers just dressed in other gender clothing. So if your husband wears a dress it is just cross-dressing, but if I wear one it is drag? WTF! I assume you can see how that makes no sense.
Why? Just what do you think is happening in a public setting? Let’s go back to Drag Queen story hours? Have you seen the pictures? Happy kids enjoying a story being read to them by a person in dress up costumes in a public place with the parents and other adults present. Just what about this is harmful to children? To other drag I again ask why you think a guy dressed as Dolly Parton is somehow harmful to kids? What if they are dressed up as Captain Jack Sparrow the pirate? Is that also harmful to kids?
I grant as a parent you have a right to not let your child go to a drag show, I wouldn’t let mine anywhere near a church. But in red states what is happening is because of a huge media push by right wing Christian conservatives to make drag a sexual thing, which it is not, so drag in public is being outlawed. Which is a pretext for outlawing trans people dressing as the gender they identify with. And Nan that gets us back to you wearing pants. Slippery slope isn’t it. Hugs
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No, Scottie. Both the Merriam-Webster and the Cambridge Dictionaries say that the wearing of clothes designed for the opposite sex is cross-dressing. Drag is defined by the Cambridge Dictionary as: “the activity of dressing in clothes of a different gender and acting in an exaggerated way like a person of that gender, especially of a man wearing highly decorated women’s clothes, wigs (= artificial hair), jewellery, make-up, etc. as a costume and performing for entertainment.” (My emphasis.)
Now I will concede that the current political atmosphere may be combining the two terms into one (drag), but by definition, they are not the same.
And the library thing is far different than what I mean by a “drag show.” The latter is usually done in a nightclub setting and includes alcoholic beverages. “Story-hour” at a library is far, far different and I would have no problem with children being present.
I do agree the Repukes are getting carried away with all things related to “sex” to please their evangelical base. However, I think we need to separate the politicians from the average person that votes Republican because not all of them are so radical.
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Hello Nan. You are using dictionary terms that are not the current usage or what is meant by the words drag. It also is not what the republicans are trying to outlaw. The current republican attempt is to define drag as burlesque and that is what you are doing. A burlesque is a literary, dramatic or musical work intended to cause laughter by caricaturing the manner or spirit of serious works, or by ludicrous treatment of their subjects. The word derives from the Italian burlesco, which, in turn, is derived from the Italian burla – a joke, ridicule or mockery.
This is the common usage of drag. A female impersonator. Yes no doubt it can be exaggerated. But have you seen the Kardashians? Have you seen Dolly Parton? Seriously big boobed females with a select body type that a lot of females want to look like.
wikipedia.org
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Drag_show
What you mean by drag show is not what is being regulated. That already has laws and regulations to it. It is called adult entertainment and / or sex work. To use your definitions, what is being regulated is cross-dressing, in that these republicans do not want kids exposed to men dressed as women. Yes family friendly events where men or women are dressed in the gender stereotypical clothing of the other gender are what is being targeted. And where does that come from? Yes the bible.
The people behind these new laws have learned from the abortion bounty hunter laws, the anti-woke laws, the don’t say gay laws, to keep the language vague so it can be used as anything they want at the time. It is similar to the anti-loitering laws some cities have that mean just being somewhere if the police needed to charge you with something and you were not doing a crime. These laws turned out to be unconstitutional but took decades to get through the courts. DeathSantis and the republicans in Florida want to cause fear of what may be meant by the law to keep librarians self censoring beyond the actual written words of the bill. How often in the don’t say gay bill debate do you hear the words “that is not in the bill”. But that is what these laws basically do and are designed to do. The goal. To outlaw trans people or what you call cross dressers. Hugs
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Since the majority (or so it seems) of people who are upset about this issue believe the bible is behind them, they should be held to the scripture you posted!!! Seems only fair, doesn’t it?
As for “drag” and “cross-dressing,” perhaps it’s because I personally would not like someone telling me I’m dressing in “drag” when I wear my jeans — no matter how “technically” correct it might be. Probably has to do with the terminology I grew up with.
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Hello Nan. Sorry for the lateness of the reply. I doubt trying to hold bible thumpers to any bible verses would work. They have trained themselves to look around them, to reinterpret their meaning, and to outright change what the verses say to give them justification for their own beliefs.
Did you see my post https://scottiesplaytime.com/2023/05/21/texas-house-advances-bill-to-criminalize-drag-shows/? Did you see how the law defined drag? But then the republicans give away the game by throwing in the words abnormal, unhealthy, degrading, shameful. Already in some of these deeply red states with republican super majority they are instituting dress codes in government offices which stipulate modesty requirements for women along with no pants even for female staff members. How long until in public they say any man wearing “female clothing” abnormal, unhealthy, degrading, shameful? That is what has passed in Florida recently calling it a bill to criminlize drag. Then how long until they try to bring back 1950s standards of dress for women? If you don’t think it could happen, we gays / trans never thought we would be fighting to keep the social acceptance we have gained and the acceptance of gay / trans kids at schools would be ripped away in such a short two years. Really it went from baby steps last year to this year full out banning us from many public places. To think in one year gay kids would be forced back into the closet and being open targets again is stunning. So yes public shaming of how women are dressed could happen soon. Hugs
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Nan, I believe that people should leave each other alone in regards to matters such as this. As long as minors are not involved, then it really does not matter to me otherwise.
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Hello Nan. Also see my reply to Randy. Thanks. Hugs
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Nan, finally we agree on something.
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Hi All;
I can’t agree.
I would say, for the most part, I agree that there are some age appropriate things. Like health care. Education. Spirituality and wonder. Art and music. Sports and a love of physical fitness. Safety. Yet, if a child’s parent, who we allow to make religious, educational, medical, familial, regional, and a whole host of other choices decides that they want that child to see men, some dressed as women, put on a show, why do I or you and in this case, the state get to decide for them now that is too far? Why?
Men dressed as women acting a role has been going on since before William Shakespeare.
I guess I’m back to that saying: If you don’t agree with taking a child to a drag show, don’t take your child to a drag show.
The thing we have to remember is that the political group manipulating this issue are the same who have just denied increasing the school lunch program yet gave themselves one. Yes. Manipulating.
hugs
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I second this, Blundersonword.
I will add that I’ve seen adult drag talent perform during a regional pageant. Those performances and pageants are held in adult venues. I’ve also seen a couple of drag kiddie shows. Those tend to be in libraries, coffee shops, etc. Now maybe in some states the twain can meet, but most states already limit the times during which a minor can be in a place that serves alcohol, which is where you’d find adult drag performances.
There is a lot of fear of the unknown, I guess.
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Hello Ali. Please see my reply to Randy (Blundersonword) and I agree with you. Drag is nothing more than dressing in the clothing normally associated with a different gender based on stereotypical gender roles. That is all it is. But those standards change with time. Before the 1920s both boys and girls dressed in dresses until about 10 to 11 or puberty. Pink used to be for boys and blue for girls (I am glad that changed as my fav color is blue) Look at photos / paintings of the founding fathers. They were not dressed as 1950s dads.
But these people are conflating these events deliberately Ali. They want the idea of a person dressing differently than they demand to be seen as deviant and sick. That forces everyone back into their preferred mode of society and puts their feelings of what is acceptable in society as law. It is all about demonizing others to make everyone to follow their church view of what society should be. All of it comes down to they hate the changes in public society since the 1950s, including civil rights, and want to force all of us back in time to where they felt comfortable and in charge. Hugs
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Hello Randy. Hello Randy my brother! I agree and love what you wrote but you along with the others here are missing something. What are these drag laws based in and who is pushing them? First who is pushing these laws and claiming it is for the protection of children. The religious right. Those who claim trans is against god’s laws. Those who claim their bibles say don’t dress in the clothing of other genders. But why would it matter what clothing is worn? Because men are supreme and the leaders according to their god, and women are lessor beings subservient to those same men, again on the orders of their male god. If a man dresses as a woman it messes with the idea of men being supreme in charge over women some, but boy, if a woman dresses as a man … they simply ignore it as silly and put her in her place. Is the woman taking a man’s authority? Is a woman now to be treated as a man with automatic authority over others? How can men stay in charge if they let women dress as men? In their minds it is only dress up for women to dress as men but a male giving up their male authority to dress as a woman is something they must fight as hard as possible. Because if a man can be a woman then men don’t have an automatic right of superiority, do they?
Drag is based on gender stereotypes about clothing. Which makes no sense as clothing standards change over time constantly. Think of the founding fathers who were men dressed in frilly shirts, short pants with leggings, wigs, and even makeup. Look at the pictures, those guys would be arrested in Tenn and Florida for doing drag. Have you seen the pictures of white Jesus? Always in a dress. Or some of the fancy dress of some clergy? Oh you say those are robes. But what is a robe but a style of dress?
The people currently against drag are the same people trying to force the US back to the 1950s social acceptance of gender roles and what was allowed in public. Also the attack on drag is a substitute for attacks on trans. We have all seen the drag queen story hour pictures and we see nothing sexual about it. These people on the right are forcing that to be sexual in the minds of people to accuse all trans people of being sexual deviants. Hugs
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I’d like to add, as a human female who says you can take my blue jeans from my cold, dead hands, that women’s wear will be in the legislative mix very soon. So many states have passed some approval for school vouchers, now. That’s state money going to private and home schools. In many states that do that, there are dress codes for students in private schools. Those codes require pant/shorts for boys, skirts for girls. I went to elementary school when that was the law for all schools, as a quick by-the-by. Many of us here probably did that.
Back to these days, again: many private schools are requiring such dress codes, and the churches do it, too. Males can wear basically whatever they want except dresses, females must wear skirts. Likely no one wants to get me started on all the instructions issued to females for preparing to leave their house.
Scottie’s big picture is, all these things will happen, if we continue to allow this all to snowball as it is. It truly is a war preserving male privilege, mostly for white males. And apparently to me, mean and stupid ones.
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Thank you for sharing Ali. As you say it is a race to the past, a regressive past where some people felt more empowered and comfortable. Where what was just assumed at church was done in public. But those days were only good for a select few, not the public or society at large. The civil rights era was about expanding rights and public accommodation for as many as possible, and removing needless restrictions. I never understood the rage against the 1960s sexual revolution as … well we all know that was publicly shown was not what sometimes happened behind closed doors. Once when I sat on a counter as an 8 or 9 yr old pouring drinks for card playing adults as often happened in our home, I heard my adoptive father say he never could understand men being attracted to minors. My adoptive mother was pregnant with his child when she was 14, and he was 19. Again public morals were not what was happening at home. So I really don’t understand the minority in a minority of the Republican Party that is desperately trying to recreate the failed days of the 1950s or 1920s.
By the way, when they come for your jeans, know I will be fighting beside you for your right to wear them. Until these people go by the mixed cloth bit in the bible themselves, they have nothing to say to the rest of us. Hugs
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Scottie, while I personally have no issue with drag shows, how they work should only be explained by parents to their children, as any other places, e.g. a school setting, would be considered in my opinion an inappropriate environment for said purpose. Some kids may grasp the concept immediately and some may require more time to figure it out.
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Hello Ragnarsbhut. What do you mean by how they work? In Florida any man wearing what is normally thought of as female attire is in drag. The republican right wing religious legislators are trying to enshrine in law the dress standards of the 1950s.
Have you seen the pictures of drag queen story hours? Guys in costume reading to kids, so what is to explain about how it works?
Drag to entertain is guys dressing as females in flashy costumes singing songs and telling funny stories, what is to explain how it works?
What you seem to be saying, and please correct my impression if I am wrong, is you think kids need some kind of big explanation about men in dresses or skirts? Is that the how it works you think needs being explained? Why? Kids don’t care, and kids already understand playing dress up. It is only a big deal when adults freak out about cross-dressing.
What about women wearing pants, button down shirts, or suits? It is happening more often that women in business situation dress in suits. Women on TV and movies dress in traditionally men’s clothing. Do kids need that explained as to how it works?
Do you see the problem? The right has created a boogieman that did not exist by taking a simply concept of dress up and claiming it something evil, degenerate, and going to harm all the children. the republicans give away the game by throwing in the words abnormal, unhealthy, degrading, shameful. They said that about gay people also, look up Anita Bryant and her protect the children campaign. However drag has been done forever, and on US TV since it began. Want to know how silly it has gotten with religious people terrified of men dressing up in female attire? A school recently had to cancel a field trip to see a kid’s play because the actors played both the male and female roles. One parent complained, just one, and so no child could go see the play. Yes a right wing religious person forced their religious belief on all the kids regardless of their families beliefs. Hugs
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Scottie, if the explanation is provided by a parent or legal guardian as to what happens at drag shows or that which is filmed on TV, I would have no issue with that. Any person who is not a parent or legal guardian otherwise has no business discussing that with kids in my opinion.
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